From: Brandon Einhorn Subject: Re: Which Markham/3w to try ? Robert Markham wrote: > > David A. Vandenbroucke wrote: > > > > On Thu, 22 May 1997, Scott Goldsmith wrote: > > > > > Of the Markham/3W command chit games which would you suggest getting ? > > > > > > I think Henry V, Crossbows and Cannons are in the system. > > > What other titles were done ? > > > > Another one is Battle of the Alma. It's the only one I have experience > > with. It's not bad, but the development was clearly mangled. > > > > Rob Markham is on this list. Perhaps he will comment on which one worked > > out best. > > > > --Dav > > davanden@capaccess.org > > Scott, > > Here is a list of the chit system quads I did for 3W: > > Royalists & Roundheads I, II, & III > Crossbow & Cannon I & II > The Crusades I & II > Age of Chivalry > Swords & Shields > The Black Prince > Henry V > > If I had to choose one to play, it would be The Black Prince or Swords > & Shields. I like the battles best in these two quads. BTW I'll be > publishing some battles from the Wars of the Roses starting with > Barnet and Tewkesbury this summer. I hope to have the system reflect > the next generation of the chit system. My goal is to produce a > system that could be retro fit to the 3W quads. The new system > focuses on leadership and reflects more accurately the command system > of the period. I'll be making a playtesters' call sometime next > month. I have played Crossbow & Cannon 2 - and while it has some good ideas, it doesnt work in practice. Below are my fixes: 1) Morale Table [Victory table] In all cases, both sides have the same VP/loss values. This implies that any two armies will break at the same time given similar losses. This is not realistic. A better trained army should have units with a high morale and a high overall break point [Swiss, Romans] A poorly trained army should have units with a low moral, and a low overall break point. In the GMT Great battles of History they use a rout ratio. The Romans typically are 40-45% while their opponents are 30-35%. I suggest having different victory break point levels for each army and each battle.What I like about your system is there is no magic breakpoint where X-1 losses has no effect, but X losses results in immediate collapse. Theonly change I would suggest is VP table should be more exponential and less linear. This is based on my perception that an army that has taken 15% losses is MUCH less likely to break than one that takes 20% losses. But once one exceeds 20-25% losses, collapse is imminent. 2) The CRT The problem with the CRT is it takes much longer for two armies comprised of small units [combat value 5] to inflict losses compared to large units [combat value 8-10 ]. I'm not even sure of what a 6-3 pike unit represents. Is it a reduced 10-3 or 8-3 from a prior battle/desertion or a smaller tactical unit. There is a problem with all units having the same number of steps. I would think a larger unit has more staying power. Otherwise it never pays to have 10-3 and 8-3 pike units. Instead the generals would have broken them into 5-3 and 4-3 units, stacked them, and had a 100% increase in staying power. The advanced game modifiers for odds differential is a very good (and needed) rule. 3) Simultaneity of Shock Combat Currently one can use the following unrealistic tactic: Line A composed of 8 units (1-8) moves adjacent to like B, also composed of 8 units. A has every pair of units attack one enemy unit [1&2-1, 3&4-3, 5&6-5 etc.] The enemy line can only respond with half its units. In its turn B repeats the same tactic. This is not realistic. When lines crash into each other, every unit fights the unit in front of them, NO ONE stands by in a raging melee muttering "Darn, we can't fight because no one is attacking us!". I would change the rule as follows: If a unit is adjacent to an enemy unit it must shock attack all units in its ZOC. It may selectively attack only if the other units are already being attacked. All defending units must fight also. Thus two lines of 8 units each, will have 8 offensive and 8 defensive combats. Units must missile fire on the unit they will shock. If the target is destroyed/retreated they may shock another unit. 4) Missile Fire a) If a missile capable unit moves, it gets a -1 missile modifier b) Pike units that don't move or start the movement phase adjacent to enemy units do not get missile fire, because they missile units have moved to the center or rear of the formation. c) Pike units may fire at two hexes at medium range with a -1 modifier. d) Units that start the movement phase adjacent and don't move, fire missiles at each other simultaneously. e) Artillery that moves is out of battery and may not fire during its turn. f) Skirmishers may not stack with other skirmishers. 5) Skirmishers/Retreat before combat a) A skirmisher that moves adjacent to a unit must shock attack after missile fire. b) Retreat before combat takes place during movement, not before melee. Cavalry and skirmishers may attempt to withdraw before combat if they are faster than the advancing units. The withdrawing unit must make a morale check. If successful it may retreat one hex if a foot unit, or up to three hexes if a cavalry unit. If its part of a line, the entire line may retreat one hex, or up to three hexes if cavalry units.. If itfails the morale check it may not missile fire during the coming missile phase. In addition, not skirmisher units have their morale worsenedone level. c) A skirmisher may stack with a pike unit. When an enemy unit moves adjacent it may fire (at a 2 hex range) and retreat one hex, behind the pike unit. [they are falling back behind the pikes] d) Cavalry that is not adjacent to any enemy units may rotate to face an enemy unit moving adjacent. e) Cavalry that shock attacked during its turn may not retreat before combat. The same hold tru for engaged skirmishers. Shock Combat a) When rounding odds, retain fractions and round to the nearest whole number. [Ex. 1.8 - 1 = 2-1, 2.5 - 1 = 2.1] b) Once units are engaged in combat there is no need to make a pre-shock morale check. c) The advanced shock table is not bloody enough, +2 is added to all combats on that table.