From: elliot@emf.emf.net (Elliot Wilen) Subject: Re: IMPERATOR/ANCIENTS(3W) In article , Michael A Hayman wrote: >The game is pretty bad [...] Imperator is a revision of King of Kings (Good Industries, original publisher of Ancients). My impression is that they fixed a few minor problems in KoK while killing some of the things that made the original a nice game. >The whole precept is really just a shallow, >little chrome filled campaign system to create tactical battles for >Ancients, (which is rather simplistic as well but that's not a fault in >this case). The economics rules suck. The tactical battle system in the >game for use without Ancients also sucks. The religion and political >rules suck too. This game pretty much sucks [...] I suppose I could say I don't like Brahms' First Symphony because the first movement sucks, and the second movement sucks, and well, the third movement sucks, and the last movement is worst of all. Really, how about explaining what it is you hate so much about Imperator? For the benefit of the original poster, I'll describe KoK briefly. The game puts the players in the personae of ancient monarchs, with the goal of building the best empire before you die. "Best" is defined in terms of wealth (in treasury) extent (in terms of cities directly controlled or owned by minor allies) and cultural advancement (good government and public works, mostly acquired by spending money but in some cases the result of other in-game actions). Each year is divided in four seasons. During Spring, you collect taxes and get income from trade goods which are in your capital. During summer you conduct affairs of state (either foreign policy, internal politics, or administration). Depending on how you spend your time, you might get a bonus or a penalty. (E.g., if you spend time on foreign policy you might gain an ally, but your enemies in the aristocracy might start plotting against you while you're away from court). During fall there is a random event (including the usual plague, raiders, natural disaster, plus appearance of a good general, and death of the monarch). Finally, during winter you must repay the cost of your troops. In addition to the seasonal activities listed above, during each season you can lay siege to cities (and storm them), move your units, fight battles, and raise new troops (in that order). During movement you may also move special trader units which can pick up trade goods--you can exchange goods with other players or (within limits) with neutrals--or you can buy goods from neutrals. There is an incentive to get a variety of goods since you get more money for each *type* of good as well as a base value for sheer numbers. Note that because troops are repayed every winter, you get maximum value for troops if you raise them in winter (meaning they'll first be available to move in spring). Also, the troops you can raise are limited to a "force pool" representing the type and numbers of troops which you country could maximally sustain. Force pools are often large enough to be able to bankrupt you if bought entirely, so this isn't too great a restriction--mainly it forces the Romans to buy heavy infantry instead of, say, Assyrian heavy archers. That's pretty much the game in outline, which shows you the kinds of things you might include in a grand-strategic ancient-empires type of game. You'd need to plug in mechanics (simple supply rules are also included in KoK) and provide a translation mechanism if you intend to use a tactical game to resolve battles. (In KoK it's pretty simple since the units translate directly into Ancients on a 1-for-1 basis.) I do think that King of Kings is a better game than Imperator (though that's based only on reading the rules of the latter). Better still would be an amalgam of the best parts of each. If you can't find King of Kings, you might look at Imperium Romanum. It is fairly complex, but certainly manageable even if you were to add a tactical module. The other suggestions were also good. Finally, there have been a bunch of strategic-level games in the magazines Command and Strategy and Tactics. --Elliot Wilen -- Please include the word "rabbit" in the subject line when sending me email. Want to ban UCE? Visit http://www.cauce.org/