From: Danny Holte Subject: Re: Misc. Game Queries >Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 09:10:28 -0600 >From: Doug Murphy >Sender: Conflict simulation Games >To: Multiple recipients of list CONSIM-L >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.consim-l >Subject: Misc. Game Queries >Interestingly, the Boulder newsletter describes GMT's Glory as a "fast >paced game, playable in an evening, doesn't take up a lot of table space, >is good solitaire and is not too complex for the novice.." Given that it >was designed by R. Berg, has 400 counters and two maps, and having >very strong memories of Richard's other games, I find this hard to >believe...comments? > Doug, The two maps (and the 400 counters) are for the three separate games included; one map covers both 1st and 2nd Bull Run, and the other is for Chickamauga. They are gorgeous, and could be framed (IMHO) The game -is- playable in an evening, albeit a long one for 2nd Bull Run, and I think probably two eves for Chickamauga (I haven't played that one yet.) Here's a bit of a sysnopsis I posted on the Delphi Wargamers board: First, the basics: 'GLORY' Designed by Richard Berg, Published by GMT Games Includes 'Bull Run', 'Second Bull Run', and 'Chickamauga'. 300 yds to the hex, each turn represents 75 minutes. Units represent 200 men per strenth point, or 2-3 guns in artillery units. Price: ~ $35.00 list, but check Bill Goranson's Armchair Commanders for a very reasonable price. (and you'll get every penny of value with this one, IMHO) (2) Gorgeous 22x34" maps covering the Manassas and Chickamauga areas. These could be framed, they're so nice. 456 1/2" and 5/8" counters in GMT's usual attractive style and quality 1 8-page scenario booklet 1 8-page rule booklet 1 Card with necessary charts The scenario booklet I received had a slight problem; the rulebook cover had been mistakenly substituted for the scenario booklet cover! A quick phone call to GMT's usual outstanding customer service had a replacement in the mail right away. 8-pages of rules! This is quite an accomplishment in a game that includes rules for unit facing, artillery ranged fire, cavalry charges, command and control, unit cohesion, and unit disorder/rout/rally. There are a few 'rough spots' in the rules for some, nothing major, and a quick email to the designer cleared them up. Command and control is handled through the use of 'activation markers' (ala VG's 'ACROSS 5 APRILS'), and a DR (die roll) range to be used when attempting to attack or charge with a unit. This creates some interesting situations when attempting to execute your well-laid plans! The game play can run a little long; 4-hours for Bull Run, 8-hours for 2nd Bull Run, and you better set aside a couple evenings for 'Chickamauga'. WELL worth the time, however! Even played solitaire, 'GLORY' is exciting, interesting, and just downright FUN. Without going into too much detail, the game plays like a '3 DAYS OF GETTYSBURG' light. However, unlike it's much more complicated uncle, you'll be playing this one in very short order. Open the scenario booklet. Setup the counters for 'Bull Run' (just to wet your appetite), and grab for the instructions. You'll be sliding counters in no time! There are similarities to VG's 'ACROSS 5 APRILS', but this has thrown in a Hemi and 50-series tires! -Danny From: "D.Adams@BoM.GOV.AU" Subject: Re: Hatim/Glory/Origins. Daniel, A reply from 5 suburbs away... it's 3:30am and the Damon Hill is leading .... > GLORY > What's the groups opinion on Glory. I recently bought it and have read the > rules which are fairly simply (except for the concept of artillery piggy > backing infantry- it took several reads of the appropriate sections to > figure out how that was supposed to work),thought the maps were excellent > and the counters attractive if somewhat excessively coloured. The use of > larger counters for infantry is interesting but I don't think it adds > anything as stacking is only allowed with artillery so why not make the > cavalry large size as well, thus using counter size to indicate who can stack? > > Anyway haven't had a chance to play it yet, so strategies and opinions are > welcome. > Did you get the copy from Napoleon's ? Wonderful little game. I have played the 1st Bull Run solitaire twice to 'get the bugs out' and it kept me there for 4 hours each time to play it to completion. Simple rules really up the 'game' time, and lower 'rules' time. I too had a problem or two with the piggy back rules, but a couple of emails to Richard Berg/David Fox cleared it all up. Apparently it will be in the very small errata. I have just started a 2nd Bull Run and have not played a Chickamauga so I cannot comment on those yet. First Bull Run lessons learnt.... - "get there first with the most" - CSA strategy. Use Jackson, KBHH as primarily your 'shock' troops. They have the higher cohesion ratings. - be very careful with your assaults with the union troops - some are incredibly fragile (cohesions of 3 - they rout in a second). Do not assault until the entire division is 'up'. Do not stack your units one behind the next - keep a retreat path open. If units have to displace to satisfy a retreat, they have to check cohesion - again they can rout. I lost Tyler's division (or brigade) this way. - if a division/brigade takes a few losses (ie. disorganized), back off and rally them back. It is very hard to rout a unit off the board. This is something I really like - divisions can come back fully tanked up later in the day for another go. - do not leave artillery by themselves. They are too susceptible to being charged - which by definition is enough to eliminate them. Stack them with infantry. Artillery in 1st Bull Run is weak, but in the early days of 2nd Bull Run - WOW !!!! - use cavalry to skirt around and take VP hexes like Groveton and the Sudley Springs bridges. As I said, great fun game to play. Richard Berg has a second ACW planned - 'Return to Glory' - which will be a 3 map Chancerlorville, with a Wilderness, Antietem and Shiloh on the back of each of the 3 maps. A while off yet though. I had a problem with the return fire rules - but if you read the rules carefully the answers are all there. A critism would be the retreat rules - maybe David Fox can step in here. I understand they have been simplified into a 'gameplayer' mould, but they seem a little silly. The retreat rules say retreat towards an entry hex. If you are forced to go through an enemy ZOC then take a disorder hit. Now many many times this happened due to the nature of the battle lines. In some cases the retreat path was through the enemy lines !! Now it seems to me that if I was going to retreat, it would be away from the enemy, not along the line of battle or towards the enemy !!!! I have implemented a 'sensible' retreat rule, based on Across 5 Aprils and it works much much better. Add some artillery counter battery rules and it will be even better. All minor critisims, though. It is a great game, and judging from the results of that consim survery I read a day or two ago, it is just the sort of game the majority or consimmers will prefer. (Easy, fairly quick, etc). Have fun with it. I was going to take it in to show Rory in Malvern and to see how his 3 Days of Gettysburg was going, he was interested in seeing Glory. This game, and London's Burning, are wonderful. I have been spoilt this year and only 3 months in.... Doug From: "D.Adams@BoM.GOV.AU" Subject: GLORY/A5A comparison for S.Goldsmith (longish) > > Doug could you give us a comparison to A5A ? > arty, cav & inf behavior ? > Okay, I will do this from memory as I haven't played A5A in a while. I am not sure of the level of detail asked for here, I will just dive in and see how deep I go.... A5A is definitely faster to play - Glory has a lot more Activation Markers (AM's) than A5A, and there is more to do in a GLORY activation. The scales between Glory and A5A are pretty much the same, 300 yards/hex, 400 men per strength point. Turns are both 75 minutes. Battles are: Glory: 1st and 2nd Manassas, Chickamauga A5A: 1st Manassas, Shiloh, Gettysburg, Bentonville, Pea Ridge Stacking is more restricted in Glory - infantry/artillery, cavalry/artiller or artillery/artillery. A5A just had a 2 units of any type rule. A unit in A5A extended a ZOC into each of its surrounding 6 hexes. Glory has facing rules (much better) and ZOC's are only into the frontal hexes. Also disorder and terrain affect ZOC's in Glory. In both games units are activatied when their marker is drawn from a cup (Glory has 3 other variants on this with which to play the game - I haven't tried any yet so won't comment). A5A had the unit markers, plus a combat marker for the entire army/armies. Glory has unit markers, plus a generic artillery marker for artillery that isn't assigned (ie stacked with) an infantry brigade. In A5A your units could not attack until you drew your combat marker - and then you had to attack anything that extended a ZOC into your unit. This could blow the battle lines apart. In Glory your AM's allow your units to do anything (ie. move and/or attack). They follow this order - artillery fires - units move (not fired artillery) - units fire - units charge Each step here is optional, not mandatory like A5A. Charge is an option that A5A does not have. On an A5A infantry unit there is an attack factor and a defence factor. This and terrain created a die roll modifier that was applied to both the attacker and defender die roll to resolve combat. On a Glory unit there is a fire strength (never higher than 6), a 'manpower' strength and a cohesion rating. There are all related to charge combat. The idea is you soften up a hex with your artillery, move up the infantry ... fire a volley and then CHARGE..... but the enemy can return fire and it can all come unstuck. If your charge is a disaster, the enemy can counter charge - you can really whip them boys !!! This all adds up to give a great feel for an ACW battlefield. There were no return fire rules in A5A (there is however a real brute of a defender CRT). I have just been trying to charge up the railway embankment at 2nd Manassas (Glory) - trying to dislodge Jackson's boys (who all have a cohesion rating of 6 or 7 - very tough). Cavalry in Glory can only charge - they cannot fire. They can retreat before infantry fire/charge. I cannot remember what their special abilities were in A5A. Artillery in Glory can fire long range, return fire or fire cannister at a charge. It can be devastating in this game. Again I cannot remember artillery being quite so 'in' on a game of A5A. Both are fun to play - A5A is a lot quicker and very simple. Glory takes longer, but only slightly more complex and has a very ACW feel to it. I prefer Glory - if only because I have played A5A so much and Glory is a 'natural' next step up for those weaned on the system. A little extra chrome. A5A II is due out soon - supposed to include Antietam, 2nd Manassas and 3 other battles. Glory II is planned - will (at this stage) include Wilderness, Shiloh, Chancerlorville (3 maps!!!) and Antietam. I hope this is what was asked for. If it reads ragged it is only because it is 7am and I haven't had a coffee yet. Doug From: Rusty Witek Subject: GLORY, Novice play, and a SMG ps Well may ye doubt that chromemeister Richard Berg has produced a simple, playable Civil War game suitable for newbies, but such is indeed the case. The rules are short and clear, and the components are top-notch (I like the counters much better than 3 Days o' G- burg, myself). The 1st Bull Run (or Manassas, the game isn't sure which) is certainly doable in an evening, the 2nd BR is somewhat longer, and I'm not sure about the one-day Chickamauga scenarios; the full Chick game looks like a good weekend's worth. I no longer have much perspective on how long it takes a newcomer to absorb the stuff most of us have been living and breathing for years, but although there are elements such as facing, return fire, and a chit-driven turn sequence, the emphasis really is on playability. I daresay an experienced player could teach the system to an utter newbie in a half-hour or less. I wonder about the decision to omit all historical background in the rules in a game aimed at least in part at the novice market (if there is in fact such a thing). I was glad when most games stopped wasting paper on superficial and redundant historical overviews ("The bark of a Napoleon at the Peach Orchard shattered the stillness of the hot July day--the carnage that was Pickett's Charge was about to begin!" and suchlike balderdash), but I suspect that new players might welcome a bit more setting of the grand- tactical stage, as in "John Pope's Union army attempts to overwhelm Stonewall Jackson's position at the railroad cut before Longstreet can intervene from the west." Most games these days assume that you either know the history cold already or are only interested in killing cardboard; that might not be true for new players. Rusty