Category 25, Topic 15 Message 1 Fri Sep 13, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 07:49 EDT Is it just me? Or does it look like Ike is doing a "Heil Hitler" salute on the cover of the package? The game LOOKS like Second Front, until you realize that it has mouse support!! That's the good news, the bad news is that all you Second Front fans have to figure out how to use it :) It really looks good, but after playing hours of Second Front, it'll take a little time getting used to the new interface... in the long run, the interface should be FAR superior to that of Second Front... SSI should have included tips in this one, and I don't see any in the rules...any thoughtful suggestions, SSI? Bill ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 2 Fri Sep 13, 1991 SSI.SUPPORT at 14:11 EDT Bill, Sorry about that Bill, we were so excited when Gary put in mouse support, that we forgot. Actually we hoped it would not be too hard to figure out, but next time we will put some info in the data card. Jamesa ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 3 Fri Sep 13, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 19:04 EDT The game starts on 17 May, but the Allied player only has enough amphib points to move one corps that turn. I assume you should wait until June before invading, and that you started in May to allow the Allied player flexibility? Having messed around with it some more... I really like the mouse support, and the menu's are GREAT. Much easier to read than the SF method... The BIG question...will Pacific War by Grigsby ALSO have mouse support? And when is that one due out? If you liked Second Front, you're going to love this one. What are the key differences in the rules? A short description of the DIFFERENCES would have helped SF players adapt more readily. The game is basically the same... tell us the differences... Bill ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 4 Sun Sep 15, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 09:56 EDT I've been playing this one some more, and have some more observations This mouse interface is TERRIFIC! Really makes things easy... The only problem I have now is figuring out how to transfer units from England to Italy... I presume you cannot transfer indiviual units, but rather have to transfer HQs? What am I doing wrong? Why does Sardinia have 4 dummy HQs and an Air Force HQ? Or is that a histroical set-up for 17 May 1944? I've invaded at Normandy, swung down and took Cherbourg. Why can't I transport troops to the port? It's awfully expensive to transport to the Amphib site, when I should be able to land at the port... I figured out paradrops I especially love the corps vs division level stuff. Basicly, in SECOND FRONT you only had corps to work with. Here, you can have corps, BUT you can have DIVISIONS as well. The difference is that only 1 division sized unit can belong to a division where in a corps, you can have up to 8 division sized units... if the Allied player wants mechanized units, he must leave them as divisions! Thus he sacrifices large units for the ability of moving 4 hexes instead of 2. Also, the larger the unit, the greater the chance of confusion that reduces it's readiness Supply lines are longer, I'm sure due to the different scale. Really, WF is nearly identical to SF, with the notable exceptions of a far superior interface, corps vs divisions, invasions, paradrops, and different equipment for the Allies... Way to go, Gary! TERRIFIC! ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 5 Tue Sep 17, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 00:34 EDT Clarification please? Does it matter if US units are assigned to British HQs or vice-versa? Also I'm assuming that replacement rates are for the HQ only, and NOT cumulative in reagrds to superior HQs I just wanna be sure... I can't get enough of this one, so far.... it seems much more fluid that SF... one other question...if you switch to 3 day turns, why can't I switch back? statement... I finally was able to move a unit to a French port. I'm assuming that I had to wait for it to repair itself but could find no mention of this in the rulebook ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 6 Tue Sep 17, 1991 P.OLAFSON1 [Peteroo] at 11:25 EDT Saw this very briefly in a store, and it looked nice. (Ike doesn't look as though he's giving an HH, by the way.) Is this a Grigsby design, or it is simply the game system from SF? (I don't recall hearing his name attached to this.) Thanks! ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 7 Tue Sep 17, 1991 SSI.SUPPORT at 13:18 EDT WF Fans, Glad everyone likes the game and yes there are some major differences in WF to SF. 1. "Shatter" results no longer mean units will disappear, rather the unit may still survive but only lose lots of men and equipment. 2. Air power is mostly handles by computer, you can still do airstrikes. 3. Some units (especially PZ units) cannot be moved because of political interference by Hitler, Churchill etc. 4. Armor production has been limited to more "historical" realities, for example you can't produce M-18 or M-36 TD's yourself, computer handles it for you when you upgrade your Sherman's. If there is more I'll post it here. James SSI ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 8 Tue Sep 17, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 20:35 EDT This game is indeed by Gary Grigsby, and in my opinion is his best yet. We all have said the SECOND FRONT would be better with a mouse interface, THIS ONE HAS IT! The other SSI.SUPPORT tips are correct, and they truly enhance the game's playability. I really enjoy the ability to switch units from corps to divisions, the computer's ability to use whatever airpower you haven't used in airstrikes, strategic bombing, invasions, paradrops, etc... It SEEMS as though to old SF rule that your units had to be within such-n-such a range of an HQ to be in supply is NOT in effect here. Another good change... I hope Gary's pacific front game has this mouse support... Bill ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 9 Thu Sep 19, 1991 K.TYLER5 [Kib] at 23:09 EDT BRAVO Gary Grigsby and SSI. I enjoyed SF, and I love WF. I have about 15 or so hours invested in WF and find it most playable. I'll buy anything that has Gary's name on it.:) Kib ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 10 Fri Sep 20, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 08:00 EDT This thing will require a review in CGW to get the topic rolling, I think... I have invested 20+ already... Allied tanks are closing in on Paris, a second beachhead has been established in the South of France, and we continue to inch our way up the Italian peninsula... Another change over SF I believe is that to dislodge a division from a hex, you have to have combat odds of 4:1 OVER his entrenchment value, or the defender doesn't budge. ALso, when attacking a corps, the enemy may just lose one unit and no retreat, so be carefull when plotting your armor "breakthrough and exploitation". I, too, buy a Grigsby game sight un-seen... Bill ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 11 Tue Sep 24, 1991 T.HOPKINS5 [Tom] at 23:09 EDT I read somewhere (rules or readme) that a port will not be active until the rail damage gets to zero. It IS a great game. tom ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 12 Wed Sep 25, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 18:32 EDT Tom, Right you are, this is a TERRIFIC game... I had to increase difficulty after I broke out of the Normandy beachhead quickly... I also had the same problem Patton did, ran outa gas near Paris and had to wait for supplies to catch up... Quick historical question. I used the forces on Sardinia to invade South of France near Marseille. Did any other allied units take part in that assualt, or just what was on Sardinia? It's also VERY expensive to move a division from England to Sardinia. So, no hope in building up too much there... Bill ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 13 Wed Sep 25, 1991 P.POMERANTZ1 [Phil] at 19:58 EDT Does this game support Tandy Graphics, or is it strictly EGA/VGA Phil ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 14 Thu Sep 26, 1991 B.WENTZEL at 19:25 EDT I take it that this is not a game one finishes in a couple of hours? Thanks - Bob ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 15 Thu Sep 26, 1991 BARRYBEAL [Barry] at 19:35 EDT I would like to add some general comments on the game WESTERN FRONT. GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT You must try this game!!! This is one of the best simulation/war games I ever seen. The mouse interface makes moving troops easy (it would be nice if SSI could add a undo last command function). The graphics are very good. The Germans are simulated very well. The OVERLOAD senario covers the entire French/Italian allied attack upon Germany. This is a bit much detail for the initial game to play (I have gotten the Germans to retreat to West Wall and have captured Nice and soon Marseille in Southern France. I have pushed the Germans to their third line of defense in Italy above Florence. It is late October 1944. West Wall is a wave of German newly created pieces. Paris is my next target. The SS tanks are foolishly been held in reserve!). One of the keys to success at the game is supply, I have had several corps surrounded by enemy troops and panzers. It is hard to advance far and fast into enemy territory without supply (a realism not commonly found in most simular games). Remember that movement by rail is fast and units lose only 1% readiness per move!! Important for the allies at the later stage of the war when their front lines are stretcheds. Let allied bommer commands -8th AF US, 15th AF US, Bomber command brigade - perform bridge bombing early on. Stragetic bombing requires large numbers of B17 Fortresses and Lancasters which the allies slow build up in the game. You need to slow down the initial German onslaught against your landing force. Lack of supply makes A BIG DIFFERENCE. Use tactical AFs to bomb enemy Airfields early on. As soon as you have a headquarters on the continent, air transfer some used Spitfire IX and Typhoon fighter bombers (range = 9 hexes) to that headquarters as it will perform CAP against German bombing attacks while you can interdict key enemy formations much better. Initially land and stay next to the sea as you will have naval bombardment to help against enemy attack (5000 artillery makes many German division turn to pulp). You first objective is to capture a port to guarantee supply (Rain and overcast does terrible things to supply without a port - besides not being able to interdict/ bomb AF/ or airlift supplies). Then you wish to build up strength to push the Germans back alittle. When you get your first continent based Headquarters and your supply port you can move your landing zone to Southern France or some other inconvient place. Airborne drops can be dangerous. Properly placed they can place enemy front line troops out of supply (give them some air protection), but they will be completely out of supply the next turn if you do not destroy the front line German troops between them and your supply lines. They can be used to capture distant empty enemy forts or ports( I did that with BREST). Airborne can be used as infantry in a pinch but they have many limitations in use. I had three or four mauled by Germans early on as Panzers teared them up till I learned alittle about their use. Artillery bombardments against a stronger enemy(at least one with more artillery pieces) is also something to avoid. Artilery bombardments followed by attacks are good against smaller enemy units that have been entrenched (or just to harass a slightly smaller enemy unit). I would like to see more discussion about the game here. The rules leave many little details out (SSI - you could write a manual addendum - I would be willing to pay extra for!!) Try Western Front if you haven't let!!!! Barry L. Beal ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 16 Fri Sep 27, 1991 P.OLAFSON1 [Peteroo] at 00:28 EDT Has anyt thought been given to linking Second Front to Western Front, and creating a War in Europe game? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 17 Fri Sep 27, 1991 W.HIGHFIELD [The Patriot] at 19:52 EDT Because I am a World War II fanatic, as well as "cutting my teeth" on D-DAY, the first wargame I ever owned, I couldn't wait for this game. Gary Grigsby has always come through with great games for WWII. Imagine my delight to find mouse interface with the game! For obvious reason, I chose Normandy as my initial landing zone. I waited until mid-June before invading, thus building up enough amphib and paradrop points to launch a massive invasion... I re-organized my forces to create 2 type of units. High-powered infantry corps, and mobile tank divisions. The initial invasion was fast and furious. Paratroops landed around Cherboug, thus cutting it off from possible re-inforcement. 3 infantry corps of about 100 points each landed along with 2 tank divisions at the historical sites. Contrary to what some suggest, I lashed out immediately at every German unit I could destroy. I shattered 3 German divisions in 3 turns by attacking with overwhelming odds. Meanwhile, the tank divisions raced to Cherbourg and assualted it with the paratroops. Airstrike after airstrike pulverized the garrison. It surrendered after a determined assualt. Meanwhile the beginning of August showed Allied troops marching steadily Eastward. Each turn, more Allied divisions landed on the continent, and by 15 August had taken Paris and Nantes had fallen in the South. The invasion of Southern France happened at this point as well, with limited success as the vast majority of war material went into the main effort, as well as offensives on the Italian boot. It is now the first week of September. Allied forces control Nantes, Brest, St Nazaire, Cherbourg, Paris, Rouen, and are closing in on Calais. A third invasion is being prepared to land in Calais during the second week. By September 15, Allied forces will reach the West Wall, and the invasion of Germany will begin. Hitler is obviously husbanding his men and materials to defend Germany. The Luftwaffe does not challenge Allied flights unless the bomb German soil. Even then, they are driven off. I'll let you know how things go... Bill ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 18 Fri Oct 11, 1991 R.BILLINGS2 [Rick] at 02:37 EDT Does Western Front have a game save utility which would make it playable by two players by trading game save files? Or is it like the rest of Mr G's other games and still pretty rough to play a human? I too am a fan of Mr G's work. First came the mouse...is the modem next? BTW CGW gives WF a review in #88. Hope to see a box from SSI under my Christmas tree!! ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 19 Fri Oct 11, 1991 SSI.SUPPORT at 13:31 EDT Rick, There is a save game ultility in Western Front and you can do the same thing for trading save games as in SF. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 20 Sat Oct 12, 1991 R.BILLINGS2 [Rick] at 09:26 EDT Sorry, I don't have SF. Is it the same as TOS, where you basically run your units on "remote control" for a turn during the other player's turn? I guess I was wrong, first came the mouse, then the menu, NOW is the modem next? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 21 Sat Oct 12, 1991 K.MORROW1 [Ken] at 14:01 EDT Rick, Saving the game and uploading the save to local BBS is quite active for both WF and SF. There is a game being played now with 6 people. Two of the players are acting as the supreme commanders directing their 2 field commanders. Quite interesting. Hope everyone is having as much fun with this game as I am. >Ken ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 22 Sun Oct 13, 1991 R.BILLINGS2 [Rick] at 17:53 EDT Thanks for the comment! I think I'll head to ChipsNBits and order WF ASAP! Mr Grigsby just gets better and better! I guess there's no need for a modem utility with a properly designed game-save utility for strategy games! Regards, Rick ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 23 Sun Oct 13, 1991 R.BILLINGS2 [Rick] at 17:57 EDT I sure hope he uses all this in his CF 2 design! The biggest complaint I had about that game was the inability to play a human...so it got old Especially with how long the game took to develop. Sorry for the double post...I just exited my first message too soon. Regards, Rick... ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 24 Sun Oct 20, 1991 R.BILLINGS2 [Rick] at 20:55 EDT I went and looked at WF at EB the other day. VGA only?! Is this just an error on the cover art or is CGA unsupported? (Dang, my laptop gets more and more useless for game play during long road trips) ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 25 Sun Oct 27, 1991 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 17:29 EST Anyone played the Diadem scenario yet? Or are you all, Campaign game hogs? In the Diadem scenario I have a few questions: 1) Are political points valid? 2) Is there a way to create a completely new unit? When I ADD it requires me to staff the new one with elements of other Div/Corps. 3) HOW DO YOU GET BETTER THAN A DRAW? I haven't figured a way to crack the final line since the computer comes up with 1500+ bombers for close air support! BTW who ever heard of an allied line in WWII without cover CAP? The Germans throw in 130-400 bombers into defense and lose 2 or 3 of them. And YES! I have moved up the Tac AF close to the lines. The others too. In the Overlord scenario I would REALLY like an explanation of invasion. How to and what it costs. Getting points would mean something if I had a valid cost schedule. I also object to the 4 victory points. Why did you completely write off Italy? A breakout in the Po valley was significant in WWII (No, it didn't win the war all by itself) but you give the Overlord player NOTHING for these achievements. P.S. One minor bug. The display will sometimes switch from VGA to CGA. Still playable but a come down.... Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 26 Mon Oct 28, 1991 R.GLAUB1 [Robert] at 20:15 EST Move some air units into the army HQs and that will give you direct air support... ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 27 Tue Oct 29, 1991 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 00:36 EST Sounds like a great idea (moving the air units) but I still am bugged by the historical anomaly of German bombers showing up in MASSIVE numbers on the beachs. I would have been happier if the German generals were just rated three or even four levels above the Allied so the "random" effective % would be more variable for the Axis. Talked to SSI today and was told there is no table for cost data on invasions, paradrops. The book tells us what we gain but doesn't tell us what we need! Lost my second invasion as the Allies..... 397 bombers to protect one Panzer Bde stopped me cold in the bocage. Have also noticed that I can have a 100+ advantage and still take more losses than the Axis AND fail to move a German unit while he hits me in the mountains of Italy at 3 to 1 and forces me to retreat. Still LOVE the game though! Just wish the rule book had a "sample game" or more explanations. Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 28 Tue Oct 29, 1991 R.GLAUB1 [Robert] at 18:15 EST Trying to move through the Italian mountains can be a real b*tch. Best terrain for the offensive seems to be on the British side (Adriatic). I usually shift the weight of my offensive there until I can break through... ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 29 Fri Nov 01, 1991 K.MORROW1 [Ken] at 21:55 EST Shadow, I have played Diadem many times and it is one tough scenario. To answer your questions: 1)The political points are valid, if I understand the question. 2) You cannot create a completly new unit from scratch. The units are historical. The pools represent replacements only. 3) To get better than draw you must take all the cities. Find the weak spots in the terrain and create super units under commanders that can handle a corps of how ever many units you have in the corps. Exploit the hole you create and cut off supplies. Move air uinits into HQs but leave some behind. GET A (oops!) GET AIR SUPERIORITY QUICK. Go after the airfields over and over again. Run down the air units so the pilots are all green and of low moral and you'll find that what ever bombers do show up on the other side are easliy dispatched. Overloard. Build up invasions points only after you select a landing sight. You can tell how much a move will cost before you land by selecting a unit and moving it to one of the landing hexes by the beach and NOT drop- ping it there, just look at the cost. Each unit has a different cost depending on the composition of the unit, so look before you confirm your move. I do not understand the question on w/o of Italy. A good fight there can draw troops from N. France. Once you have landed in France and secured a port. Move units through the port only. Go to italItaly and select a new landing sight to land behind the Axis. When you have enough points, move a force to land behind these lines. The Axis will be forced to pull back to avoid cut supply lies. Then, just head north. Hope this helps. If I can help further, let me know (if I helped at all this time). >Ken ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 30 Sat Nov 02, 1991 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 03:06 EST Judging from the incredibly active topic I guess this game is either the best kept secret or the most perfect game on record. There are a few questions I would like the answers for: 1) Where do all the M4/75's come from after I've stopped production and switched every factory to M4/76's? Same question for several other items. 2) If the reinforcements (new divisions, etc.) are historical, what happens if I don't use, or lose, a HQ that's due for reinforcement? 3) I've lost over a 1000 afv's in one 4 day turn, but I still seem to have about the same amount in the "POOL". Why? 4) The POOL keeps getting bigger, especially in planes. Is there a way to pull items out of the POOL manually? 5) Several times the computer "defends" or "supports the attack" with Air assigned to the local HQ. I've noticed that the # of planes reported is NOT the same number that end up in the final total affecting the combat odds. Is this a bug? I haven't finished a complete OVERLORD, however, It appears impossible to accomplish the historical land gains. The Axis is just a little strong on defense/counterattack and the Allies either lose Div after Div because they are overextended (move 4/5) or can't maintain the pace. I have 4 friends playing the game and we can't seem to get to Paris before late October or November - or LATER! Has anyone else found this to be true? Still think this is the closest thing to a two player wargame on the market! Just wish I wasn't the only guy in town with a 2400baud modem! Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 31 Sat Nov 02, 1991 BARRYBEAL [Barry] at 13:58 EST Western Front is a really new and fairly complex strategy war game. The lack of activity is probably due to the complexity of the game and the fact that the instructions for the game are very poor for this type of game. This may discourage many people from even trying the game or causing them to finish after very little play. I am told that the game is simular to Second Front. As for your questions: Many of the combat losses are not so much destroyed units but damaged units that must be repaired in order to be used. As for instance, newer replacement units like the M4/76 are built, the replacement of damaged M4/75 units is by the new M4/76 unit leaving many M4/75 in the replacement pool. I have tried building only FIREFLY and CHURCHILL tank units towards the end of the war. I have heard little about economy or changibility of different units - British units seem to use Churchill ie British tanks and Americans seem to use Sherman M4/75orM4/76 tanks. I have noticed British units with Firefly tanks. I like M36 Jackson or Archer anti-tank guns instead of M10 Wolverine but even the best US unit is much inferior to the Germans. Towards the end of Overlord, Economy is not a problem for the Allies, so build the best (in fact I'd recommend building it as soon as possible). I have only played Overlord once, and Hitler was killed and the Axies surrended in June 1945 but till late fall 1944 the war was not going good. I have lost hundreds of tanks, over a thousand AFV (I recommend building M24 Chafee as soon as possible), hundreds of squads (over 1000 ocassionally when I make poor attacks), and hundreds of artillery in massive attack rounds. You must use your AFs to destroy enemy air fields. I always had to guess which HQ units had active airfields (you will get damage if there is air force based there). German airforce can severely stop allied attacks. Destroy all within range. As early as possible, move allied air force like spitfires and short range Typooon, Mosquito and Tempest fighter bombers to active headquarters. My Patton 3rd army headquarters had >1000 air force (due this by using air transfer). Strategic Bombing should concentrate on bombing Oil producting cities (under Utilities - Industries - Oil), then cities with major factories (ME-410a, King Tiger, etc - Berlin; Panzer IV, Panther - Stuggart; Bf-109g - Bochum; etc.) Don't forget to look in the manual to see if a city has any factories and capture it first if it does. US calvary units are great for capturing land quickly but they can be surrounded (air force will protect them). During cloudy days us tactical air force to bomb cities with factories -- they will be less effective but it all helps. Italy is a tough fight with several excellent defensive lines with many mountains. Breakthough the gaps in the mountain putting them out of supply. Remember supply is the life blood of the game (along with oil). Fire Clark and Montgomery as soon as you have the political points (Alt-k tells you want you have). Promote your best commanders and only give them the troops to get the job done. I hope this helps. I will try to answer any other questions you may have. I will soon start a Diadem game and will try to answer any questions about that. I wish SSI would publish a further rules book I would be willing to pay for more instructions. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 32 Sat Nov 02, 1991 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 17:08 EST Thanks for the information! So far I have been allowing the Computer to decide what Strategic attacks to make. I didn't want to spend the political points to make my own decisions. Am currently in the middle of a modem game with a friend. I'm the Allies and I just landed (about 10 min ago!) so we'll see how it goes. Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 33 Sat Nov 02, 1991 R.GLAUB1 [Robert] at 23:34 EST I usually make the following leader substitutions: Clark=Truscott Alexander=Milliken Leese=Crocker Montgomery=O'Connor Dempsey=Horrocks I just finished a game tonight, and took Berlin on 23 Dec 1944 ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 34 Sun Nov 03, 1991 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 03:29 EST Congratulations! So far I'm getting whipped by my friend across town. I'm the Allies, it's early July 44, I'm ashore but bottled up in the penninsula and DON'T have Cherborg yet. In Italy he's holding a line across from Rome with massive stuff, including 12 air in each HQ. My POOL is weak with 0 Halifax's left and under 100 of just about everything modern (M4/76, P-47,P-51,etc.) The only "happy" note is MASSIVE damage to Leipzig, including the Bf109g factory, Massive damage to Berlin, including the Heavy Industry, the city, and the Armored Car factory. His oil is down to 89. Is this going to help or should I surrender and restart? Shadow P.S. Yes, I made about the same replacements so far. BTW what do you recommend as a good mix in the HQ? So far I've put 4 air (2 P-47,2 Tempest/Typhoon) in the only HQ ashore in Europe and 2 air (P-47,P- 51) in the 2 HQ in Italy. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 35 Sun Nov 03, 1991 R.GLAUB1 [Robert] at 14:08 EST Let the Brits hit him hard on the Adriatic coast, that will flank his line and force him to withdraw up to the Gothic Line farther north. Two fighter-bomber units are good for each active HQ. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 36 Tue Nov 05, 1991 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 02:20 EST Well, I'm still getting crushed as the Allies in my two player, modem game. My losses run about twice the Axis in both Italy and in Normandy AND I'm not gaining any ground. What am I doing wrong? Darned if I know. I've tried bombarding prior to attacks. I've tried waiting until readiness was over 90. I've tried air directed air strikes prior to attacks. Nothing seems to work. Air strikes on the Axis HQ (my opponent has placed 12 air units in each HQ) costs me two to three times as many losses as kills. Any suggestions would be welcome. Two problems with the game, as a simulation. 1) I have failed to find ANY cases, outside the Bulge, where Axis counterattacks destroyed allied divisions wholesale. Something that happens often in the game. The readiness loss for movement seems excessive. No wargame I've ever seen claims a unit can go from 90% to 16% by moving one hex. No historical record I've been able to find documents even a 30% loss of effectiveness due to movement of ANY distance. 2) What is this "admin move" that allows the Axis to withdraw 30 or 40 INFANTRY Korps 20 and 30 hexes at a time? When Patton broke out of the bocage the German infantry was almost trapped simply because they couldn't move administratively as fast as Pattons tanks were moving in combat mode. In this game a breakthrough is either crushed by the 120cv SS DR or the entire line gets away clean through the one hex hole in the surround. Someone should give Gary Grigsby and Michael Musser a free membership to GEnie since Gary is the leading (maybe only) designer/programmer who seems to have any idea what a historical simulation is all about. GREAT EFFORT SSI! But seriously flawed as a simulation. Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 37 Thu Nov 07, 1991 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 01:01 EST Have just started a game as the Axis player. Have found HQ in the East loaded with troops & planes. Although troop transfers, at least on the first turn, don't work I found no problem moving planes on Air Transfer. What effect will this have on the game? If I later pull troops out of the East front HQ will the front collapse? Answers anyone????? Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 38 Sat Nov 23, 1991 T.ADDY at 22:34 EST Has any one had any success in invading an area other than Normandy especially say Pas De Calais area? Also I can't figure out the best way to split the air power among HQ's for best effect . If any one has suggestions Please reply--- Thanks.*S [A [A [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [B [B ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 39 Sun Nov 24, 1991 J.LEYES at 00:38 EST I was wondering about the OB for this game. In the OVERLORD scenario many USA divisions don't show up as they do in say BULGE. I'm refering to 8,9,10,11,12,13,16,and 20th armour and several other infantry divisions. Also there seems to be some divisions in the Italian theater missing as well. For example 10th Mountain Division. Has anyone have an answer for this? Thanks *s ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 40 Mon Dec 16, 1991 SSI.SUPPORT at 12:36 EST Different scenarios contain different equipment and units for several reasons. Each scenario has a little different code to make them each maintain special rules. This is for play balance and help keep the Historical flavor. i.e. it will always be snowing in the Bulge scenario. Units are placed in an HQ only if, 1: there is enough equipment to make the unit in the replacement pool. anf there is room for another unit name available to make. This is the source of most confusion about this aspect of the game. Sincerely, Phil ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 41 Fri Jan 03, 1992 R.TROMP at 23:53 EST I just completed the Cobra scenario, wherein I made a secondary landing near Calais with troops from Monty's HQ. This force was not all that strong but seemed to worry the Germans enough to abandon France and regroup at the West Wall a number of turns earlier than I think they would have otherwise. It also allowed me to consolidate and rebuild rails in France much more quickly, and most decisively, gave me the needed time to easily capture Arnhem to gain a decisive victory. All in all, this is by far the most enjoyable computer wargame I've ever played. Did find one bug/amusing feature. After overrunning the German paratroop HQ (playing on after the scenario end date), it kept reappearing with about 30 combat strength each turn after, in the same place totally behind my lines, even on top of my units- which disappeared as a result! I never realized that para- troops were such an incredibly rugged and powerful fighting force! 8) ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 42 Sun Jan 05, 1992 D.MCCAULEY1 at 16:26 EST Stupid question, maybe. Does WF support modem-modem play? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 43 Tue Jan 07, 1992 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 00:46 EST D.MCCAULEY1 - No it doesn't. HOWEVER! you can tell the computer you are playing two humans. Save your end of turn file and ship it by modem to another computer. Then your friend starts the game, saves his file....etc. One turn a day works well. This also lets you have time to study your moves AND have time left over for Civilization! Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 44 Sun Jan 12, 1992 R.BAUMHAUER1 [Rick] at 20:57 EST SSI, when can we expect the Amiga version of WF? Your ads/flyers said Oct/Nov (can't remember which), but it obviously hasn't made it. Not that I need it tomorrow, just want some idea. Thanks. Rick ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 45 Thu Jan 16, 1992 SSI.SUPPORT at 13:08 EST R.Baumhauer1, WF Amiga has been indefinately postponed. Hopefully we'll see something this fall but there's no guaranties. Sincerely, Phil ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 46 Sat Feb 15, 1992 D.CAIN3 [Genghis] at 17:14 EST Fellow Liberators: Based on the incredible raves you have all given this game, I ordered it at once, and there is no question about it; this is a fantastic game. My experience with wargames is limited, but the interface on this one invites understanding. I still can't even begin an invasion, but I know I'm getting closer. Just a few questions. But first, let me ask if someone would provide some tips for a beginner. The hardest part of learning this game is that when you fail, it could be for any of a thousand reasons. What elements are most important to beginning a campaign? Is there any place that the number of political points accumulated is displayed? It hasn't been real important so far, but I am guessing that it does matter. When I'm in Italy, the damn 29th Panzer can kill anything? Is there something I don't understand about those tanks? How many amphibious points does it take to launch a reasonable invasion? I set the computer on auto, and it hit Normandy before the end of May. I haven't accumulated enough points by then. What strategy should I use for HQ movement? What effect does proximity have on its subordinate units? Oh, well. I could ask a thousand more questions. Let me put in a few more hours, and sort the stupid ones from the problems. Thank you for your support. Genghis the Invincible PS. Is there a good strategic simulation of WWI? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 47 Sun Feb 16, 1992 R.TROMP at 23:34 EST I've found that the most crucial element to success is the effective use of air power- first priority is to cripple the Luftwaffe with repeated attacks on the HQ's with the most air units- 2-3 turns of German plane losses in excess of 700 shut them up for a while. Second priority is hitting German armored units (esp. SS) with interdict missions. This can be most effectively accomplished by transferring 1-2 air units to each HQ, since all available units will automatically participate in this type of mission. The amount of damage done by multiple units in an interdict is not significantly greater than 1-2 units, and splitting them up allows you to get more licks in. Bridge bombing should only be used when a significant number of German units can be cut off by bombing less than 7 or so bridges - also bridge bombing is pretty much futile in months where rainy or overcast weather is common. If the clouds lift, use everything on airfield bombing and interdiction. The best use of political points is to direct the strategic bombing campaign- the computer makes some pretty lame target choices sometimes if left on its own. With political point and luck, Germany can be virtually on its knees by Jan 1945. I've found that the best invasion strategy is to wait several turns after the historical D-Day- the weather gets better, you have more landing points, and the air campaign has had more time to soften them up. Use paratroops to cut off Cherbourg on the first turn, and take it on the second or third with a strong unit- a good port is absolutely crucial to the sucees of the landing. (This is what makes Normandy much more attractive than the Calias region- the ports there are virtually impossible to take before heavy reinforcement by German armor. Hope these tips help. Love this game! ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 48 Mon Feb 17, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] at 22:58 EST R.TROMP, (get a handle !) Is the game system for Western Front anything like Second Front (also by SSI) ? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 49 Wed Feb 19, 1992 R.TROMP at 22:34 EST I haven't played SF, but I seem to remember hearing the game systems are very similar, with WF having mouse support, and a lot of extra features. Rob ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 50 Mon Feb 24, 1992 A.BUNN at 19:31 EST SSI, I saw the message about the Amiga version of WF being postponed indefinetly. Can you tell us why? Thanks. Alton ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 51 Tue Feb 25, 1992 SSI.SUPPORT at 12:52 EST Alton, Pragramming and Financial limitations kept SSI from producing a WF format for the Amiga. That doesn't mean there may not be one. It just isn't in the forecast right now. Sincerely, Phil ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 52 Fri Feb 28, 1992 A.BUNN at 00:49 EST SSI, What does "programming and financial limitations" mean exactly? After all you were able to do Second Front for the Amiga, and as far as I can see it WF isn't that different. Oh well. Are there aany other wargames for the Amiga on the drawing boards? Alton ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 53 Tue Mar 03, 1992 S.PIOTROWSKI at 07:20 EST I recently uploaded a letter from a friend of mine named Neil Herbert to the Second Front message base and now here is a letter from him regarding Western Front. I will forward any replies to him: To SSI, I have recently picked up a copy of Western Front and although it has many new and good features, it also has some problems that blemish an otherwise excellent game: (i) You got rid of our ability to change equipment! This was one of the more enjoyable aspects of Second Front - I quite enjoyed spending time tinkering around with my panzer battalions and giving "deserving" units new vehicles. Now we are left to the mercy of the computer. For example, all of my tank factories are producing either King Tigers or Jagdpanthers. When my respective pools got to 300 each, the computer SLOWLY set about converting independent battalions across to the new equipment. Not only was I upset that LAH SS Panzer Division did not get them first, but the Jagdpanther pool never seemed to dip below 600 (and the King Tiger pool never dipped below 700 either!). Meanwhile, my Stug battalions rapidly ran out of Stug's because none were being made, but couldn't utilise the enormous number of Jagdpanthers that I had in my pool. My friends and I rapidly become VERY frustrated and ANNOYED. Please use the Second Front system in future! If you have any objection to us having control over our equipment, just stop us from altering factory production but leave us the unit conversion ability as the computer does not stand a chance of doing the appropriate upgrading. (I noted that conversion appeared to follow historical trends - ie. Heavy Panzer Battalions got the King Tigers first and the independent Jagdpanzer battalions got the Jagdpanthers). Why doesn't anyone seem to like using ordinary old Tigers. When the Heavy Panzer units converted to King Tigers, I was left with over 350 Tigers in the pool for the rest of the game. Surely, units using Pz-IV's should grab them? Looking at air units, a similar problem emerged. I streamlined the aircraft production down to 5 types (FW-190's, Bf109G's, He219's, Ju-87PzJg's, and Ju-188's, and eventually Me-262A's) and those air units requiring non-production aircraft simply sat there and vegetated (or got bombed and ran out of aircraft). It was all very uninspiring. At the finish of my first game (in which the allies not only lost air superiority, but didn't even cross the Seine river and were pushed completely out of Italy), I had nine Fw-190 air units each with 6 aircraft whilst I had over 700 Me-262A's in the pool. Similarly, I had over 700 Ju-188's in the pool, whilst my Ju-88A staffels each had 12 aircraft. What is the reason for no conversions occurring and please explain why we have been left at the mercy of the computer for the conversions we do get. Also, why give us 400 Bf-109F's in the pool when: a) no air units use them, and b) when we cannot even convert air units to them? (ii) What is the story of the arrival date of the FW-190D? I have it on good authority that it appeared from July 1944 (7/44) and not 11/44 as occurs in Western Front - after the Me-262A! The arrival dates for tanks and air units are quite different in Western Front, compared to Second Front, what also is the story? Better O.B. info? (iii) The computer does not know the meaning of the word "encirclement" and in addition, even attacks at unfavourable odds - something that doesn't happen very often in Second Front. I had a 40-50 point corps dug in at entrenchment level 5 behind the Seine River (with Jagdtigers, Jagdpanthers or King Tigers in support) and the computer insisted on head-butting my line with one, or occasionally two corps attacks and achieving 0:1 odds (in 5 months of combat along the Seine River, it achieved 2:1 odds only four times - not enough of course to shift me from my fort line. This was extremely disappointing and boring - I ended up having to do three moves in 5 months; I transferred a division from a corps to an H.Q., and four months later put it in a different corps to replace another division that was getting low on squads. During this time of course, 1st Para Army, 25th Army and Group Oberrhein and all of the units in them sat still and never activated - with them I could have retaken France! The Allied player typically lost 1000 squads, 800 tanks, 1200 guns, and 2000 aircraft on a clear weather turn. Only the collapse of my supply to a maximum of 5 saved the Allies from losing France as well as Italy. Once again, it was far too easy and very disappointing. Something interesting (disturbing?) in Western Front is that the computer can create corps and plot with them in the same turn - it actually managed a tactical encirclement by doing this. In addition, it can withdraw units from areas at supply level zero - I spotted this when I completely encircled two U.S. infantry corps, and watched with amazement (amusement) as the computer simply recalled the formations. Is this cheating by the computer intended? (iv) What is the story with the Eastern front forces? Does their replacement level affect them? Can we reduce the rate at which their formations shatter? I notice that we can transfer their aircraft to the west, but not their ground units. In addition, Allied bombers can bomb their aircraft (extremely silly). (v) What is the story with night interception? Most of the game, the large nightfighter units (experience level 60-80%) sat around and watched as bombers either flattened Germany or their own airbases. Once in a blue moon, they would intercept the Lancasters which I suspect fly night missions. Is this what you intended to happen? (vi) As a note, I like the concept of division markers and am interested by the retreat shatter result - wouldn't work in Second Front very well, but works fine in Western Front. The political points system is very good for the Germans initially - it's quite a dilemna on what to spend the points on. I ended the game with 147 political points, but with some H.Q.'s inactive. Would it be possible to make it possible to activate an H.Q., say at a cost of 30 points? I hope that you take note of my points as my friends and I believe that these games would be excellent games (rather than just good games) if they were addressed (if the computer can't be made more intelligent, we'll just have to play each other more often). One question though, how did your playtesters miss the above points? We all thought they were quite obvious after half a dozen games. Anyway, my friends and I look forward to your response to our points (Steve will forward them to us) and ask Gary Grigsby to keep up the good work (and to do a version 2 of both games). Best Wishes, Neil Herbert 3 March 1992 Perth, Western Australia P.S. There are two 560th JPz and two 654th Jpz battalions in the German forces in Western Front. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 54 Sat Mar 07, 1992 A.BUNN at 12:41 EST SSI, I posted a message last week asking why there probably wouldn't be an Amiga version of WF. I still havent seen anything. What Gives? Alton ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 55 Sat Mar 07, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] at 18:38 EST I sure hope someone can give me some tips on this game. I have several questions that are not covered in the manual. 1. In the Overlord scenario, there is a HQ unit in the Italian theater. It is the 15th USAF hq. I position the cursor over it, then put it into MOVE mode. Without even moving the cursor from over it, it shows a movement cost of 90%. It can move one hex, and thats all. No way to move it past that. Rail, Plot, nothing. I haven't had this problem with any of the other air force units.... What gives? 2. How can you tranfer planes from one HQ to another? I tried transferring planes from the 2nd TAF Br unit to another one, and could NOT do it. Is it possible to transfer planes from the HQ units that are strictly air units? 3. Creating new units. Is the only way to create units to take apart existing ones? I use f5 to create a unit. I am asked where I want to transfer units from. Aren't there any new units that enter the game already intact??? Based upon what I have been able to do so far, it would seem that the units you are given at start are all that you will ever be able to get, because as you CREATE new units, you are merely shuffling existing divisions into new CORPS. I must be missing something. Please clarify this... 4. Supply. It says that axis supply is traced from Essen, Milan, and Berlin. Does this mean that if you destroy the 2 or three strategically located bridges in Italy, that the entire Axis army in Italy will be out of supply? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 56 Sun Mar 08, 1992 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 02:18 EST Ok, here's the UNOFFICIAL answers to your questions, Walkin' Dude. I've figured this out from previous messages and logic, coupled with game play so bear with me here. 1) An Air Force was a BIG unit in terms of logistical support. The units on the map are a single repersentation of dozens of air fields and hundreds of units. Large airforces were never moved, they just weren't tactical enough. 2) Not sure I have the answer to this one. I have transfered air units from some Air Forces. Notice, click on the DESTINATION unit and it asks where to transfer FROM. You can't start with the losing unit. I routinely transfer several air units from the British Tac and some US Tac to operational HQ's. I believe there are some Air Force units on the map that are STRATEGIC only which you are not allowed to transfer from. 3) New units come into the game into the higher HQ's. You must then create a new unit on the map and transfer FROM the higher HQ to the new unit. If you watch over time you will see the units "show up". You just have to keep checking the higher HQ's. 4) You are partly correct. You can severly hamper the supply of units in Italy and other areas by bombing bridges. However, bridges are only damaged, not completely cut. And damage is repaired automaticly. NOTES: There are a few larger flaws in the game you should be aware of. One, You can change the factories but it seems to have little effect on the game units. i.e. You'll notice your pools of King Tigers might get to hundreds while your divisions on the map get weaker and weaker and won't make the switch. They apparently DO switch, it just takes MONTHS and some units never seem to suck in all the new equipment to get back up to strength. It's EXTREMELY frustrating to have HUNDREDS of Me 262 jets in reserve while your frontline Air Force can't scrape up enough air craft to cover your own HQ. The computer can transfer units into far away HQ's (so can you) despite reality. i.e. It's impossible to trap the historical number of German infantry units in the Falasise pocket with your armor. The German player just transfers them all out and places them elsewhere! Luck, Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 57 Sun Mar 08, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] at 15:04 EST Shadow, Thanks for the reply ! >Large airforces were never moved, they just weren't tactical enough. This might explain it. The unit I was referring to was indeed an operation HQ unit, so maybe thats why. OTOH, I have been able to move Tactical air units. >You can't start with the losing unit. I routinely transfer several >air units from the British Tac and some US Tac to operational HQ's. I >believe there are some Air Force units on the map that are STRATEGIC >only which you are not allowed to transfer from. Voila ! Thats it. The units that I was unable to transfer FROM were indeed the strategic bomber units. I haven't played long enough I guess, to see the new units arrive. Got too frustrated and decided to vent it here on GEnie. I will be looking for those new units! Regarding the larger flaws. Bad news indeed. I do have a partial rationale, which may keep you from bashing your computer monitor with a mallet. Perhaps the hundreds of 262's sitting in reserve reflects a shortage of pilots, (which at least is historically accurate). I don't see how this would effect the armored units though. Perhaps Grigsby will fix this in an upgrade version. Well, now that we have that ironed out, perhaps we can start talking strategy. I am considering opening the Gerry flank by conducting an amphib op in the "soft underbelly". Have you had any luck with this strategy? I can see one immediate drawback: you begin a lot farther from those all important German cities than if you land on the Channel coast... Guess I'll give 'er a try and let ya know how it goes... SSI: is there any plans to do an upgrade for this excellent game? I believe I have version 1.0 . Is there anything later and greater than this? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 58 Tue Mar 10, 1992 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 01:54 EST The "soft underbelly" hasn't worked for me due to the computer ability to "create" units on demand without having to walk them down the rails. Do a lot of testing to determine the "super units". The computer (and most human) player tends to put together a massive unit for counter attacks. Of course, find this turkey and air strike all day and the S*B get's trashed. This helps a lot. However, the German will tend to have an unrealistic tactical air support arm to cover the frontline units. I believe its a gamesmanship answer to the identifiable weakness of some units. Only answer I've found is to make SURE each Army HQ has at least 2 tactical air units. Fighter bombers like P- 47s, etc are best. Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 59 Tue Mar 10, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] at 08:39 EST Shadow, Any idea what version you are playing? I know that for Second Front, for example, there is a Version 1.1. I would like to make sure that I have the absolute latest. BTW, you mentioned that reinforcements will show up in HQ units. Any particular unit I should be watching? I would assume SHAEF would be the logical choice for American units, and so on for the other nationalities as well. Noticed another quirk yesterday. I was bombing the hell out of (well, trying to !) a German division in Livorno, and I kept selecting the HQ unit to fly sorties, and it never flew ALL of the available bombers at once, it kept sending them over in 1 squadron formations. I kept re-selecting the same HQ for the same mission, and it kept sending them over piecemeal. This was not as effective as one massive strike. Any idea why this occured? Have you managed to figure out just exactly how allied supply is determined? Say there are 3 beach hexes, and 2 port citied. Which would you use to determine supply, the beach heads or the ports? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 60 Sat May 02, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] at 14:28 EDT Couple of questions. 1. Where do all the air-strikes come from after you have supposedly allocated all that you are "politically" capable of? I have tried every possible way to squeeze more air strikes out of my units, and when it seems that all have been exhausted, I go to combat phase. Then the computer starts allocating air strikes all over the friggin place. And supposedly the 8th AF and Bomber Command were not able to fly any missions due to lack of political points, yet the computer allocates them with impunity. Is this a bug? An undocumented feature?? 2. Presently, it seems that the majority of reinforcing (not replacements) units appear in Britain, under one of the Brit HQ's (Can't recall which). I need more divisions in Italy. How can I maximize reinforcements in that theater? I've set most of the HQ's in that theater to a very high replacement level, yet it doesn't seem to affect reinforcement schedule. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 61 Sat May 02, 1992 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 15:08 EDT The additional air strikes are from those units you are not allowed to target with. In the "real war" there was massive tension between the "flyboys" and the "groundpounders" with the flyboys wanting strategic targets to "win the war and stop the German war machine" and the groundpounders yelling for more TAC air. The game attempts to balance these with the "political" point system. It assumes that you are the groundpounder who will be yelling for specific targets which WON'T be strategic. Notice how the cost goes up the more Tactical the target? If you download this entire topic you will hear about several attempts to figure out the replacement/reinforcement system. It seems to have several flaws...one of which is the inability to "force" units to use the better equipment. One player complained that some German units almost vanished after he set ALL the factories with the "good stuff". It seems some units will NEVER acquire the good stuff and if the pool goes dry with the junk the unit just fades into the sunset! While personally agreeing that the "real war" units weren't able to load up on Me-262's it does seem strange that there are formations which won't take what they can get when nothing else is available. Shadow - Overall rating of game B- due to unrealistic replacements/reinforcements and supply rules. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 62 Sun May 03, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] at 11:13 EDT Shadow, >It assumes that you are the groundpounder who will be yelling for >specific targets which WON'T be strategic. Notice how the cost goes up >the more Tactical the target? "Wheres my ******** air support ???" Yep, thats me to a tee. It ain't much fun tangling with an SS Panzer Korps that hasn't been sufficiently "softened up" with a ton or so of HE. Reminds me of an account I read from an interview of a german soldier after the war. The interviewer asked him about the combat characteristics of various nationalities. He mentioned the Russian ruthlessness, the British tenacity, and when asked about the Americans he rather sarcastically replied that he had "never really seen an American attack", because of all the smoke and HE that proceeded even the most insignificant assault. He told of a barn in Belgium that housed several German squads which was levelled by 155's before the American's assaulted the place. Seems after the first spotting rounds landed the Gerry's quitly slipped out the back door . Overall, I like the game. I have curtailed production of the "neato" units (Tigers, Jagdtigers, 262's, etc) in order to make sure that the units receive equipment. I wonder if there are any plans to do an upgrade which will fix the AI problems? On another note, Carrier Strike is awesome !! ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 63 Sat Jun 13, 1992 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 15:43 EDT Back on the computer after a break. Until someone does it better, this is the BEST wargame on the market available for the PC. However, Has ANYONE won the Diadem scenario on purpose? I did it once several months ago and can't remember how I did it! I can get several units (usually 2/3) on the final mountain range by the end of August. There I sit until the game declares a draw. NOTHING, not even saving up for a 30 political point Strategic AF strike clears the Germans out of those last 3 towns on the rails at the north of Italy. HELP! Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 64 Mon Jun 15, 1992 SSI.SUPPORT [Phil] at 18:31 EDT J.Ferrier, I win the Diadem scenario quie easily when I play the overlord campaign by transfering all of the paratroopers to Italy and cutting off supplies to essential areas in German control. It's a little more dicey in the Diadem scenario by itself. Keep the two (or three) paratroopers in use because they will be rebuilt soon after their surrender. These rebuilt units are quite small so they require very little in the way of paradrop points to move. It's kind of a cheesy way to win but it works. Incidentally, in the Overlord scenario, I can be in Berlin by Halloween '44 (German Max Help) by marching up Italy. Sincerely, Phil ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 65 Wed Jul 22, 1992 V.FAZZI [Vinny] at 01:10 EDT I here tell that Western Front is undergoing an overhaul, ie version 1.1 FAZ ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 66 Thu Jul 23, 1992 SSI.SUPPORT [Phil] at 16:02 EDT To All, WF is being reved. Now, HQ's in France will be able to be activated when the allied player lands in Calias Sincerely, Phil ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 67 Tue Sep 01, 1992 G.GEYER2 at 21:08 EDT SSI.SUPPORT (Phil), I'm having problems getting my twin copies of SF and WF to run. I used to have no problems and indeed got many fine hours out of SF, but sometime ago, when I tried to play SF, the game hung as soon as I entered START (the exe file). The exact same thing happens w/WF. Now I'm not sure, but the last time I played I think was before I installed DOS 5.0. But I know of a friend who runs both on 5.0 w/no problems. I've booted from a barebones floppy (nothing really in Autoexec or Config) and get the same problem. Is there some compatibility problems? Any clues on what is preventing the normal operation of the software? I know it isn't the game software as I tried it on a friend's machine (w/5.0) and it works fine. It must be some configuration but what puzzles me is the problem w/the vanilla boot. Being refitted behind the lines, Greg ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 68 Sun Sep 13, 1992 G.HIGHTOWER at 00:11 EDT SSI I heard there is going to be an upgrade to Western Front. Is this true ? Will it be available here on Genie ? When might we see it ? Will it allow us to change unit equipment types like Second Front ? PLEASE say yes !!! Glen ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 69 Sun Sep 13, 1992 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 11:37 EDT DON'T ALLOW THOSE CUSTOM UNITS! It's totally unhistorical and RUINS the game..... On the other hand, how about the important upgrades: 1) Infantry that can't just transfer to a HQ and flee the Falise (sp) pocket at twice the speed of allied armor. 2) Limits on "super units" that, even with disorganization, seem to allow the Germans to smash two or three Corps in a row, something no one accomplished in a 2-4 day time period. Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 70 Mon Sep 14, 1992 R.GURSKE1 (Forwarded) Dear SSI, I was rather dismayed to hear from a friend who sent in a disk of WF to get the updated disk (which he saw an ad for) that he just recived a letter from customer service stating the fix is off. This merely continues a trend off SSI's increasing callousness and bottom line attitude towards it's customers ("afterall, we got our money a year ago, why spend more to fix it now?") As one who has tried to play this game with the activation limitation as well as the bug where the program crashes everytime you try and use the "move" command on a unit in a hex with a supply level of 3 or less the fact that you are renigging on your previously stated intention to correct at least the former bug concinces me that you no longer seem to feel eithics and loyalty towards your customers is a worthwhile goal to persue. The only solace that I have is that other companies which are also starting to release games of this nature feel their customer's satisfaction is of some value to them and act accordingly. It is also apparent that some of the newer company designs are of a more "cutting edge" nature then your anyway, and that these companies are wiulling to gamble more on pushing the design envelope and certainly more responsive to customemplaints. As someone who has purchased dozens of your games starting with Atari's Carrier Force, it is sad to see you no longer care about what you release. Sincerely, Bob Gurske ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 71 Fri Nov 06, 1992 L.SHARP [SABRE] at 00:24 EST I was wondering if SSI is going to do an upgrade on this game or patch, or is it a done deal. ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 72 Thu Jul 16, 1992 R.GURSKE1 (Forwarded) Dear Sirs; As you are aware (because your customer service read off some of the bugs to ME over the phone) version 1.0 of WF has a number of bugs. Among the more irritating are 1) the infamous "activation" bug in 2 player mode where unless one lands at Normandy half the German army can't be moved and sits out the war as the Allies waltz into Germany. 2) Allied air force HQ's (the only ones I've tested so far) in 2 player mode when shattered by ground attack never reappear, thus the shells to hold all those pilots and aircraft are PERMANENTLY lost for the rest of the game. 3) Some key combinations (usually involving the move command and space bar) cause the game to freeze up and crash with a line of machine code on the bottom of the screen. I have been trying to play a two player game versus a friend of mine and having to try to manuever around these bugs is growing rather wearysome not to mention that fact that your customer service told me flat out your company would NOT fix these problems because Mr. Grigsby's time is needed for new projects. Also I might mention that several posts on this subject from several people on America On Line have simply been ignored. I, for one, would find it refreshing if you could 1) tell us why your company is now content to simply release programs with bugs and thenm take a "tough luck" attitude. 2) Why you haven't had the coutrtesy to at least respond to the comlaints. I must point out that these games are not tidlywinks. Many times it takes much longer then your 14 day gaurranttee to know if a program is flawed. Moreover in the past we all had confidence that if a game did have bugs (undertandable given their complexity) that you would release a fix. Why this policy no longer seems relevant shows to me a rather poor sense of business and moral ehtic I do hope at the minimum, unlike your representative on AOL, you'll at least do this post the courtesy of an answer. Sincerely, Bob Gurske ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 73 Mon Jul 20, 1992 V.FAZZI [Vinny] (Forwarded) Bob, You might try appealing to Gary himself. I've seen him hanging around the carrier strike forum. FAZ ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 74 Mon Jul 20, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] (Forwarded) Bob, I haven't seen much response in this topic. Gary Grigsby has been relatively active in the Carrier Strike topic, perhaps you might want to e-mail him, or post your message in the Carrier Strike topic. I have WF also, and it is a very promising game, this makes the bugs all the more frustrating... ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 75 Tue Jul 21, 1992 SSI.SUPPORT [Phil] (Forwarded) To All, SSI is making a new version of WF. This version is going to allow the Germant player to activate the HQ's in France when the Allied player lands in Calais. Sincerely,Phil ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 76 Thu Jul 23, 1992 R.GURSKE1 (Forwarded) Thanks for the reply Phil. I do hope that a number of the OTHER bugs have been noted. The one that I find most irritating is the air force HQ shatter bug. If an air force HQ (not an army) is attacked by ground forces and shattered it, along with any air groups that were attatched to it PERMANENTLY dissappear from the game. This means one ends up having massive numbers of aircraft pile up in the reserve pools with no air group shells to deploy to. Also there is a bug where when one tries to hit the space bar to move a unit (not plotted movement) on a hex with a low supply value sometimes one gets wierd messages on the bottom info box (i.e. dummy SS corps) and occassionally one gets some lines of machine code and the game freezes. Bob ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 77 Thu Jul 23, 1992 SSI.SUPPORT [Phil] (Forwarded) To all, The issue being addressed in WF is the activaion of HQ's. Gary feels that any other changes to the code has too large a risk of incorporating other (new) bugs. Sincerely, Phiol ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 78 Thu Jul 23, 1992 A.ROBERTS17 [Walkin' Dude] (Forwarded) Phil, Thanks for the info. Two questions. 1) Any idea when it will be ready? 2) Will Gary or anyone from SSI make it available on GEnie? Thanks ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 79 Sat Oct 10, 1992 D.ANGLIN [Kedryn] (Forwarded) Does anyone know if this ever came about and what the version # is if it did? Thanks ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 80 Tue Oct 13, 1992 R.GURSKE1 (Forwarded) The bug fix apparently got cancelled. No reason given but I have to say that 360 is looking ALOT better then SSI these days (especially in product support!) Bob ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 81 Tue Nov 17, 1992 J.FERRIER [Shadow] at 02:43 EST Bugs are bad but some are silly. If you leave a major Air HQ where the land forces are going to overrun it you deserve what you get...i.e. loss of shell. Now, historical design flaws are REALLY annoying. The idea that the computer can transfer infantry into and out of a HQ, thereby allowing the German Infantry to outrun Pattons tanks is just plain bad design. Von Rundstat would have KILLED for the ability. Shadow ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 82 Wed Dec 16, 1992 L.SHARP [SABRE] at 01:17 EST I was wondering if there was a printed map for this game like there was for SF? Also was there ever any other version of this game besides ver.1.0? ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 83 Thu Dec 17, 1992 D.CAIN3 [Faust] at 18:03 EST If anyone is interested in a pick-up E-mail game of WF, give me the word. I was hoping for a full campaign as the Germans, with a slow pace. Anyone want to try and take France away from me? Faust ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 84 Sun Dec 27, 1992 L.SHARP [SABRE] at 03:56 EST I was wondering about some of the supply bugs in this game? Should you leave equipment upgrades up to the computer if you are the allies? I have read posts that units will not upgrade to the new equipment if you change to the better types, is this true or false? Can the Germans just form new units right in front of you and transfer units out if they are surrounded? How do you create strictly armour units to gain the movement advantages, and what are the size limitations? Where do you get the aircraft to attach to HQ's for the allies? Where are the paratroop drop zones on the map and how do you change the zones? How many air missions can you fly in one turn with a tacair unit, and bomber unit? If you can change production of equipment types playing the allies, what types should be produced? When you finally launch your invasion what is the largest amount of units that you can use ? All of these questions are asked from the allied perspective playing a two person game in the Overlord scenario. Any other comments, suggestions or tips concerning a two player game would be highly appreciated. Of course my opponent will be reading this post too, at least no one can accuse me of being unfair . ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 85 Sat Jan 02, 1993 D.CAIN3 [Faust] at 17:17 EST Anyone not so engrossed in PacWar to pay some attention: In Overlord, the Germans start out with Bf109g's and are producing Me410a's. These planes are not supposed to be present in 5/41. (5/43 for the Bf's and 4/44 for the Me's) Anyone have a clue? (or an upgrade?) Faust ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 86 Sun Jan 03, 1993 D.SCHELTEMA at 00:46 EST Um, Faust... I don't think Overlord happens in '41, really. Dan ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 87 Sun Jan 03, 1993 D.CAIN3 [Faust] at 09:53 EST Good point. I've got to stop playing so many wars at once. The forties are all melding together. Ignore my stupid question. Faust the Red ------------ Category 25, Topic 15 Message 88 Mon Feb 15, 1993 L.SHARP [SABRE] at 22:29 EST I was curious if any one could tell me the best mix of units that work well for corps and divisions for the allied units. Sabre -/---- ------------