Peter Stein - 07:15am Oct 14, 2001 PST (#21 of 34)
'I'm not gonna fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a camel 
in the butt.''- Pres. Bush

Some rules questions we came up with yesterday playing the game:

1. If, as defender, you lose a battle can you retreat to a spot where
another battle is going to take place? Do these new guys count in that
battle?

2. Concerning the card(s) that let you remove samurai froma spot and let
you put in one or two of your own: Do your guys come from off the board,
or do you have to use guys you already have on the board.

3. The Ninja Card: Do you get to see your opponent's hand and pick a
card to take, or do you draw randomly without looking?

Thanks in advance!

Charles Elsden - 06:53pm Oct 14, 2001 PST (#22 of 34)

S&K is lots of fun; congratulations to all involved. I just got thrown
off of AOL after writing all my comments but before I could post. I am
now sending a series of short messages. Hope that's OK...

I've only played once (6 player) and have many questions. Here they are,
with my own rulings so far:

1. Where does an eliminated player return? (Ans. He gets not an actual
Ikko-Ikki "card" a such, but may use its ability--to enter anywhere
except where there is a castle.)

2. How can you distinguish between those in Dishonor to choose an
Emperor? (Table Rule: No one in Dishonor can become Emperor.)

3. Honor Markers? (I've made my own in cardboard--gotta have that 20th
samurai!)

4. How many samurai in the 3 Player? (Ans: 20; same as 4 Player).

5. Can blue cards be used as the original one or two combat cards, as
well as a third card? (Ans: Yes, but as a third card you MUST use the
special power--otherwise cards with the same value top and bottom make
no sense).

Charles Elsden - 06:57pm Oct 14, 2001 PST (#23 of 34)
Charley's Second Message

6. Draw Phase: If a player starts the DP with 5 cards and does not wish
to discard, can he pick more for his clan points? (Ans: Yes, there is no
limit to hand size.)

7. Are the Optional Rules meant to all be used at once? (Ans: I doubt it.)

8. If a player wins a battle against an enemy castle, but loses all his
attacking samurai, does he still get to replace the castle with one of
his own? (Ans: Yes, its hard enough to do.)

9. Can you still attack if you have less than two cards? (Ans: No.)

10. Here's that Ninja question again? Do you get to look at the enemy
hand first? (Ans: I've tried it "No," now I say "Yes," otherwise its not
very effective).

Continued in Third Message

Charley

Charles Elsden - 07:01pm Oct 14, 2001 PST (#24 of 34)
Charley's Third Message

11. "Treachery" card: Can you replace any of the opponents three cards?
(Ans: No, only one of the original cards, not the third (blue) card.)

12. If the attacker loses, may he retreat to any owned territory, or
adjacent ones only, or must they backtrack in retreat exactly where they
came from? (Ans: Any adjacent is good enough, and doesn't require
memory.)

13. "Scorched Earth" card: Does it prevent "revolts" by the two Sect and
two Ikki-Ikko cards too? (Ans: No.)

Continued in Fourth and Final Message!

Charles Elsden - 07:08pm Oct 14, 2001 PST (#25 of 34)
Charley's Fourth Message (Whew!)

Having solitaired and played once with 6 players, the major design questions 
are:

1) Are there too few cards? Have to play it more to find out!

2) Are there too many "removal" cards (4); sect and Ikki-Ikku (Got to
ask a Japanese friend what the heck this means.) Hey, the winner came up
with all four of them at once, went last, and that was all she wrote!

Here are my own basic clarifications:

BROWN CARDS: may be played either for their special powers or as combat
cards using their upper number. Play them during your turn (powers), any
combat (number), or "Play Anytime."

BLUE CARDS: may be played during battle only: as a first or second
combat cards (upper number) or as a "third" combat card (special power
only).

That's all for now. Hope you've enjoyed this exciting series of messages! **

Charley

Ed Wimble - 07:36pm Oct 14, 2001 PST (#26 of 34)

Peter,

In answer to your first question I'd say yes they do count in that
battle since you are forced to move one group at a time. Who kows if the
designer cared at all about the amount of historical time each movement
is supposed to represent. Not me.

Your second question: Take them from your reserve.

Thirdly: I concur with Charley on this one in one of his messages above
where he asked and answered the same question (my kind of guy).

John Kisner - 08:52pm Oct 14, 2001 PST (#27 of 34)
Playing in Des Moines: OCS Korea and GMT's For the People

Peter,

1. If, as defender, you lose a battle can you retreat to a spot where
another battle is going to take place? Do these new guys count in that
battle?

If a move triggers a battle, the battle is fought before making any
other moves. (Section 8.2 states "... combat must be fought before
making other movement.") So there would be no way of knowing where any
other battles might occur later in the phase.

2. Concerning the card(s) that let you remove samurai from a spot and
let you put in one or two of your own: Do your guys come from off the
board, or do you have to use guys you already have on the board.

I've assumed only samurai already on the board can be moved with these
cards. The Sect cards are powerful enough without making the troops
freebies from off-board! (My interpretation is obviously unofficial.)

3. The Ninja Card: Do you get to see your opponent's hand and pick a
card to take, or do you draw randomly without looking?

We debated this, and decided you should look at the enemy hand and
choose which card. This justifies the card's cost.

Hunter Johnson - 07:07am Oct 15, 2001 PST (#28 of 34)
Historical Up Front scenarios: http://www.hunterandlori.com/UpFront.html

My opinions on earlier questions.

Some rules questions we came up with yesterday playing the game:

1. If, as defender, you lose a battle can you retreat to a spot where
another battle is going to take place? Do these new guys count in that
battle?

Battles are resolved as soon as samurai are moved into an occupied area,
so there's no way to tell where another battle is going to take place.

2. Concerning the card(s) that let you remove samurai froma spot and let
you put in one or two of your own: Do your guys come from off the board,
or do you have to use guys you already have on the board.

The rules aren't explicit, but we've played "from off the board".

3. The Ninja Card: Do you get to see your opponent's hand and pick a
card to take, or do you draw randomly without looking?

You get to see the hand (because the card says "choose").

2. How can you distinguish between those in Dishonor to choose an
Emperor? (Table Rule: No one in Dishonor can become Emperor.)

Ties among dishonored players are broken the same way as ties among any
other players, IMO.

3. Honor Markers? (I've made my own in cardboard--gotta have that 20th 
samurai!)

Alternatively, play only 5- and 6-player games. :-)

5. Can blue cards be used as the original one or two combat cards, as
well as a third card? (Ans: Yes, but as a third card you MUST use the
special power--otherwise cards with the same value top and bottom make
no sense).

Yes, any card can be used as a combat card; ignore its text (and any
katana in the bottom text box).

7. Are the Optional Rules meant to all be used at once? (Ans: I doubt 
it.)

They're mix-n-matchable, though.

8. If a player wins a battle against an enemy castle, but loses all his
attacking samurai, does he still get to replace the castle with one of
his own? (Ans: Yes, its hard enough to do.)

Have to check the rules again; they mentioned something special about
winning a battle but losing all of your samurai. If you get the honor
for the victory, then yes, you get the castle too.

9. Can you still attack if you have less than two cards? (Ans: No.)

Yeah, this was our interpretation too. Makes the Emperor ability more
useful -- choose the leader (or player who looks most likely to attack
your position) go later in the turn, when he may have had to exhaust his
hand in defense.

11. "Treachery" card: Can you replace any of the opponents three cards?
(Ans: No, only one of the original cards, not the third (blue) card.)

Right, only a combat card.

12. If the attacker loses, may he retreat to any owned territory, or
adjacent ones only, or must they backtrack in retreat exactly where they
came from? (Ans: Any adjacent is good enough, and doesn't require
memory.)

Exactly where they came from. No memory required, since attacks are
resolved instantly.

1) Are there too few cards? Have to play it more to find out!

Too few for what? That you can actually run out (all cards held by the
players)? We've never been close, but that could be a play style thing.
Have you run out?

2) Are there too many "removal" cards (4); sect and Ikki-Ikku (Got to
ask a Japanese friend what the heck this means.) Hey, the winner came up
with all four of them at once, went last, and that was all she wrote!

They do seem overly powerful.

(Anything I cut I agreed with without needing more comment.)

Hunter

Hunter Johnson - 07:11am Oct 15, 2001 PST (#29 of 34)
Historical Up Front scenarios: http://www.hunterandlori.com/UpFront.html

My own question: are ties broken for determining the Shogun (as they are
for determining the Emperor), or if there is a tie for high honor is
there just no Shogun for the next turn?

Hunter

Douglas Jorenby - 11:20am Oct 15, 2001 PST (#30 of 34)

Hunter,

I asked Tilsit the question about ties for Shogun (I was writing a
review and wanted to make certain we were playing it correctly). The
response was that ties are broken just as for Emperor.

Also according to Tilsit, there IS a maximum hand size of sorts. At the
end of the Draw phase, a player is limited to a maximum of 5 cards in
hand, plus up to 2 more if you control enough cities. Thus, you could
never have more than 7 cards in hand at the end of a Draw phase.

Peter Stein - 09:14pm Oct 15, 2001 PST (#31 of 34)
'I'm not gonna fire a $2 million missile at a $10 empty tent and hit a 
camel in the butt.''- Pres. Bush

8. If a player wins a battle against an enemy castle, but loses all his
attacking samurai, does he still get to replace the castle with one of
his own? (Ans: Yes, its hard enough to do.)

I strongly disagree with this. The rules state that if all the
attacker's men die in the battle, the attacker doesn't get the province.
You replace the castle if you win the province, and you didn't win the
province if all your guys died.

Charles Elsden - 04:50pm Oct 16, 2001 PST (#32 of 34)

Let me mention to everyone that Pete Stein and I are face to face gaming
buddies, before I disagree with his recent disagreement. There is a
conflict between rule 9 and 9.1 on the point, so its really a conceptual
difference. Rewarding good card play seems more in spirit with the
design in "winning the battle" to me than the last samurai, especially,
if I have more than 4 so have extra there to garrison a burning wreck of
a conquered castle. I could play it either way.

9 states "If the winner loses all his samurai during the combat, he
cannot seize the territory. 9.1 states If a player seizes an enemy
castle, he can destroy it or exchange it with one of his castles not in
play.

Charley :)

renaud verlaque - 05:22am Oct 17, 2001 PST (#33 of 34)
Age of Napoleon (or will it be Master of Europe?), North vs South (soon 
available as emailed freeware)

Stated that way, I'd go for the interpretation that you need at least
one surviving samurai to take the castle and convert it...