Subject: Re: Up Front Questions From: "Christian Killoran" Brian Bankler wrote in message > These answers are based only on our own "house" rulings, nothing official. Questions: >1) Marsh. The card and the rules contradict on the numbers What is it? Go with the rules. It just sucks to shoot from a marsh. >2) When a hero card doubles an LMGs firepower, it says it doubles the > bracketed number. So if the firepower is say 7[4], a hero card > only makes a non-moving, crewed LMG an 8 (2*4) instead of a 7? > Is that the intent, or does it add as well (7+8=15) or something > else? Or is it just that real heroes don't use machine guns? FP is 8 However heroic you may be, your crewman feeding ammo is not. >3) Movement card...when looking up Fire strength, you add the card > underneath...if it's a movement card, do you keep going back to > a terrain, or is it movement + next card only? Only the top two cards matter. Think of it this way...if a group in woods moves out with one card, the fireteam is just leaving the woods. They get the penalty for moving, but still retain the benefit of the cover. Two movement cards represents a team that has entirely left it's cover, that's why you remove terrain cards underneath at that point. > > OK, now the tough ones. > >I set up US vs Germany, giving the US 3 Groups of 4 and the germans 2 groups of 5. The germans kept winning, because the US never seemed to have enough firepower. Are large groups inherently better, because of firepower? Firepower is what large groups are good at, but large groups also have some serious weaknesses. Probably the most obvious is that a single pinned man in a large group prevents that group from moving, and rally cards of sufficient size are not always handy. More subtle, but equally important, is the fact that large firepower heavy groups often can't be used to "burn" unwanted movement cards. This is especially important for the Germans since they can discard only one card per turn. If you've got a hand full of movement cards, you're gonna have an ugly situation for a long time unless you've got groups that can scoot around and use 'em up (the same goes for terrain cards.) Finally, as you progress through the rules, you will find that the increased firepower bonuses for flanking fire and encirclement can make it extremely dangerous to keep a "short" line of big groups. Remember too that your group "A" pays a range penalty for firing at enemy groups "C" and "D". All other things being equal, it's usually best to create a "fire" group out of your heavy weapons (usually positioned at "B") and many low morale riflemen, and one or two smallish "manuver" groups out of your high morale men (esp. if some are equipped with short range assault weapons.) Use the fire group to suppress enemy fire teams while the manuver groups burn movement cards with lateral movement untill you get lucky enough to pin a bunch of his shooters. Then rush forward while the enemy rallies and nab yer good terrain. When yer getting really close, use that gully card you have been saving to cover your guys final advance to the victory conditions! I haven't analyzed the deck, but it seems that there >may be some breakpoints to watch out for...like 7 firepower vs 11 >or 12 (meaning 9 is not really different than 7, but 11 is much better >than 10). Any tips? Some folks set up their fire groups with this in mind, but in my experience something ALWAYS goes wrong and messes up that perfect math. A more productive plan would be to watch out for the Range breakpoints...that magical place where a fireteam suddenly jumps from being useless to being ferocious. Save your big fire cards for that situation! Subject: Re: Up Front Questions From: tarot@notmenetvigator.com (Alan Kwan) On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:58:59 -0400, Brian Bankler wrote: >I just picked up a used copy of Up Front, read the basic rules >(1.0-20.0 or so) and walked through Scenario A (solitaire). > >Questions: >1) Marsh. The card and the rules contradict on the numbers What is it? -1 / -1 There is an errata sheet in my copy. >2) When a hero card doubles an LMGs firepower, it says it doubles the > bracketed number. So if the firepower is say 7[4], a hero card > only makes a non-moving, crewed LMG an 8 (2*4) instead of a 7? > Is that the intent, or does it add as well (7+8=15) or something > else? Or is it just that real heroes don't use machine guns? Since doubling is effectively "increase by one time", I used to play that the firepower becomes 7+4=11 . >3) Movement card...when looking up Fire strength, you add the card > underneath...if it's a movement card, do you keep going back to > a terrain, or is it movement + next card only? Two cards only, although as I recall certain cards (such as smoke?) do not count towards this 2-card total. >Are large groups inherently better, because >of firepower? Large groups have better firepower, but they are also bigger targets, since one fire attack attacks all men in a group. "Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / tarot@notmenetvigator.com http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core game reviews) (please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address) Dimension S editor: http://209.213.100.47/ Subject: Re: Up Front Questions From: Ken Agress On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:58:59 -0400, Brian Bankler wrote: >I just picked up a used copy of Up Front, read the basic rules >(1.0-20.0 or so) and walked through Scenario A (solitaire). > >Questions: >1) Marsh. The card and the rules contradict on the numbers What is it? That's a typo on the card. Marsh is -1/-1. >2) When a hero card doubles an LMGs firepower, it says it doubles the > bracketed number. So if the firepower is say 7[4], a hero card > only makes a non-moving, crewed LMG an 8 (2*4) instead of a 7? > Is that the intent, or does it add as well (7+8=15) or something > else? Or is it just that real heroes don't use machine guns? Real heroes don't have crewmen. :-) An LMG without a crewman fires with it's bracketed values. Therefore, your hero card can only affect this value. Note that not all countries have crewed LMG's though... >3) Movement card...when looking up Fire strength, you add the card > underneath...if it's a movement card, do you keep going back to > a terrain, or is it movement + next card only? Only the top two. Once two movement cards are in play, you're out of the terrain. > > OK, now the tough ones. > >I set up US vs Germany, giving the US 3 Groups of 4 and the germans >2 groups of 5. The germans kept winning, because the US never seemed >to have enough firepower. Are large groups inherently better, because >of firepower? I haven't analyzed the deck, but it seems that there >may be some breakpoints to watch out for...like 7 firepower vs 11 >or 12 (meaning 9 is not really different than 7, but 11 is much better >than 10). Any tips? > You need to structure your groups to fit the scenario you're playing. Having oodles of firepower never hurt, but may not be the best solution. For the scenario you selected, you'd want to maximize your firing ability. Personally, I'd have gone for a group of 4 and a group of 8 as the Americans, planning on doing most of my moving (in and out of good terrain) with the smaller group while the larger group provided supporting fire. As to the breakpoints - they don't really exist. Since any fire mission can include more than a single fire card, you can unload heavy hitters pretty effectively. What you need to look at is the victory conditions for the scenario and deploy your forces accordingly. Most require a certain number of unpinned men at a particular range chit, which can make a small group very, very worthwhile. Also remember that some weapons change their effectiveness rapidly as you close in on your opponent. That sub-machine gun that was worthless at RR0 is worth more than the bolt-action rifle at RR5. Ken Agress Subject: Re: Up Front Questions From: John_David_Galt@acm.org Brian Bankler wrote in rec.games.board: > I just picked up a used copy of Up Front, read the basic rules > (1.0-20.0 or so) and walked through Scenario A (solitaire). > > Questions: > 1) Marsh. The card and the rules contradict on the numbers What is it? Oddly enough, this isn't covered by the errata at http://www.abs.net/~anomaly/upfront/errata/errata.html I've always played that the rules are correct and the card is wrong (it's -1 to both incoming and outgoing fire), since both examples at 8.44 say so. But you might want to join the Up Front mailing list and ask there. > 2) When a hero card doubles an LMGs firepower, it says it doubles the > bracketed number. So if the firepower is say 7[4], a hero card > only makes a non-moving, crewed LMG an 8 (2*4) instead of a 7? Correct. > Is that the intent, or does it add as well (7+8=15) or something > else? Or is it just that real heroes don't use machine guns? The Hero card represents one man who momentarily feels very brave. If this guy can do something by himself, he can be very effective. (He is also a darned fool, and has a good chance of getting a medal, posthumously.) In the case of a crew-served weapon, one heroic man isn't going to help very much, if at all, because it's heavy and bulky enough that it's very difficult for one man to move or fire it. > 3) Movement card...when looking up Fire strength, you add the card > underneath...if it's a movement card, do you keep going back to > a terrain, or is it movement + next card only? You add the top two cards only, except that Wire doesn't count against the limit of two. (Thus when there are two Movement cards, the terrain underneath doesn't count. In fact, it no longer has any effect on the game, except that if you remove a Movement card (as a result of rejecting a new terrain card) it will apply again.) > OK, now the tough ones. > > I set up US vs Germany, giving the US 3 Groups of 4 and the germans > 2 groups of 5. The germans kept winning, because the US never seemed > to have enough firepower. Are large groups inherently better, because > of firepower? I haven't analyzed the deck, but it seems that there > may be some breakpoints to watch out for...like 7 firepower vs 11 > or 12 (meaning 9 is not really different than 7, but 11 is much better > than 10). Any tips? You usually want one group to be big, so that you can use the big fire cards. How big is big, depends on what you have to work with. As Americans in scenario A, I would probably set up 8-4, with the three highest morale privates and the Corporal (#2) in B and everyone else in A. The idea is that group A just goes to range 1 (or possibly 2 if he can get there in the first two or three turns), then digs in and shoots at anything that moves. B is your "maneuver group": eventually they may close and fight at close range with the enemy (or if the enemy is hurting, try to advance to range 4 and win by victory conditions); but their main job is to keep any German group from getting to range 4 by getting in its way. (Since the Germans have to set up first, if their big group is at A I'd put mine at B.) As the Germans I'd probably set up the same way, only 6-4 since they have only ten men. The reason it's not 8-2 is the victory conditions: four men to range 4. Each group should always be arranged with the heavy weapon (LMG, BAR, mortar) LAST; any officer next-to-last; and the privates in order of highest morale first. This is important because shots fired against your group are always resolved in the order you've arranged the men -- so you're giving the enemy as many chances as possible for their weapons to break before they can hit your most important guys. For the same reason (and because officers tend to carry short-range weapons) I like to have an officer (in this case the German sergeant) crew the LMG or mortar. (Yes, I'm aware I'm misusing the word officer, but there aren't any commissioned officers in the game, unless the Russian commissar qualifies.) General tactics boil down to two main things: movement and card usage. Movement I've partly covered already. After the first three or four turns you should be very reluctant to move any group, unless the scenario demands it (such as D) or you start with groups too far apart to help each other (scenario R in Banzai). If you must move, try to do it when most of the enemy groups are themselves moving, or stuck in Marsh or Streams, or have a lot of pinned men. And try to have a good terrain card in your hand _before_ you play Movement. Most of the time you want to collect two types of cards: Fire (if it's not so big that you can never use it) and Rally. Holding a Move in your hand is good too, to get rid of Wire even though you probably don't have any intention of really moving. Although Fire cards can seem plentiful because they tend to "run in bunches", it's best to get maximum use out of them by waiting until an opposing group is Moving, or until you've stuck them in bad terrain, maybe with a nice Wire or two on top... :D The other reason to hold back Fire cards, even when you could use them, is that one Fire 3 or 4 (final value after he Conceals) is worth about ten Fire 1s, in terms of taking out the opponent's men. If you get a card like "Fire 1 (1)", don't just use it because you can! Save it until you can combine it with a "Fire 2 (6)", and it will be worth its weight in gold. Unless you have a perfect hand, try to go through lots of cards, especially if you have made more kills (and so would win on victory points (Rule 16.4) if the 3 decks ran out soon). If you are Germans you can always discard one per turn, no matter what else you do; take advantage of this. If you are Americans, discarding uses a turn and usually shouldn't be done if you have something constructive to do, but there are some creative ways to get rid of unplayable cards without discarding. For example, you can move, then play them as Open Ground. What follows isn't exact and doesn't cover all situations, but it's a start. Cards at the top of this list are the ones I most want in my hand. If I discard (or get rid of cards in other ways) I usually want to discard the bottom-most ones. 1. Hero. (Most of the time, I use a hero in order to play a big Fire card, or to be able to rally an important man (like my heavy weapon operator) and fire in the same turn. But if we get to close range I will save it for more important things, such as to rally a heavy-weapon guy or officer OUT OF TURN when he is already pinned and is about to be shot at again.) 2. Fire cards, but only if I can use them (now or at a range I expect to be at in the next few turns). Of course if a really good opportunity to use them (say a Fire 4 or better) arises, then blam! 3. Up to two bad terrain (Stream, Marsh, Minefield if in play) and/or Wire cards. (Don't bother if your opponent is in a position where he shouldn't move again, except for Wire which can be played even on a non-moving group.) Bad terrain should be saved for where it will do the most good (that is, where you will be in range to blast away after he is stuck in that terrain). Note that playing terrain or Wire on your opponent counts as a discard, so it will count against your discard capability for that turn. The terrain play is usually worth doing. 4. One big Rally (4 or greater) or two small Rally cards. 5. Concealed cards. Play one ONLY if you have too many, or if the shot can kill or rout a man (= Fire 2 or better if you have no unpinned men). Otherwise let the fool waste his ammo. "Too many" usually means more than two, though if you have a small hand size (Russians or Japanese) and want to do something requiring multiple cards (say Move + terrain), you may have to use these up. 6. One Movement card, in case Wire gets put on you. (If you plan to move, save every Movement card you can get, in case bad terrain gets dumped on you and you have to Move again. Also save at least one good terrain card to put on yourself, though in a pinch Open Ground is okay at long ranges.) 7. Everything else: good terrain if you don't plan to move, unusable Fire cards, Cower cards (such as the Pillbox and Minefield in scenario A), and excessive numbers of any card except Fire and possibly Concealed. At close range a lot of this changes. In particular, at relative range 4 or 5, I want to save lots of Movement and Concealed cards so I can infiltrate, do Close Combat, and get bonuses while doing so. (For this you need all two pages of Rule 20.) John David Galt Subject: Re: Up Front Questions From: "Andrew Maly" >> >> Questions: >> 1) Marsh. The card and the rules contradict on the numbers What is it? > >Oddly enough, this isn't covered by the errata at > http://www.abs.net/~anomaly/upfront/errata/errata.html Actually, it is under the components page. The card is incorrect, the TEM for both incoming and outgoing fire is -1. > >> 2) When a hero card doubles an LMGs firepower, it says it doubles the >> bracketed number. So if the firepower is say 7[4], a hero card >> only makes a non-moving, crewed LMG an 8 (2*4) instead of a 7? > >Correct. This is the correct interpretation. > >> 3) Movement card...when looking up Fire strength, you add the card >> underneath...if it's a movement card, do you keep going back to >> a terrain, or is it movement + next card only? > >You add the top two cards only, except that Wire doesn't count against the limit of >two. (Thus when there are two Movement cards, the terrain underneath doesn't count. >In fact, it no longer has any effect on the game, except that if you remove a >Movement card (as a result of rejecting a new terrain card) it will apply again.) That's about as good a plain language answer as there is on the subject.