David Bolt - 02:07pm Mar 29, 1999 PST (#225 of 228) Currently playing "Clash of Eagles: The Eastern Front 1914" The companion game to HBtLF. I overlooked a post from Eduardo Riccetto. My apologies, Eduardo, the answers to your questions from #210 are: "In # 204 (of the DOE folder) you answered that the owning player determines from which units strength point losses will come. However, the example given in 11.14 of the rules seems to indicate that whoever picks the losses gets to pick the unit (except the 1st must come from a combat class unit). The example is in relation to a morale check taken after a fire combat. Is the attacker just to determine class? i.e. infantry, artillery, cavalry? and the owning player the unit?" I was wrong in post #204 of this folder (DOE). The example in Standard Rule 11.14 is correct. He who picks the losses gets to pick the unit, however, there are five important restrictions to this (see below). "In barrage combat and resulting morale checks, no units are disclosed so the attacker could never pick actual units (or even classes) as he does not know what is there (other than fort/non-fort) unless the units are already revealed." In barrage combat where the attacker does not know the defending hex's contents, then the owning player would get to chose. This is an errata. "In conclusion, there are 6 different circumstances (labeled a through f below) where strength point losses may have to be allocated by the opposing player: In each of the following cases does the opposing player allocate to the unit, classt or just states "step loss"?" The opposing player gets to allocate the unit, with the following exceptions: "a. Barrage combat losses" -- If the barraging player does not know the identity of the units in a hex, then the owning player may determine which units suffer any Strength Point losses indicated by the opposing player. "b. Barrage combat morale check losses" -- 10.43C stipulates that the first Strength Point Loss Result indicated by the oppposing player must come from a combat class unit (only) "c. Fire combat attacker losses" -- 10.55C stipulates that all attacker losses in a fire combat are Strength Point Loss Results. In addition, the number indicated on the FCRT is suffered by each attacking hex. "d. Fire combat defender losses /e. Fire combat attacker morale check losses /f. Fire combat defender morale check losses" 10.43C stipulates that the first Strength Point Loss Result indicated by the oppposing player must come from a combat class unit (only). This also applies to these three cases (d through f). In addition to the exceptions given above to the six cases (a through f) where an opposing player allocates Loss Results, there are three other, overriding, Standard Rules. Standard Rule 12.32 prohibits a player from selecting a cadre Strength Point loss if a non-cadre Strength Point is available. Standard Rule 12.7 limits each player to a maximum of 1 retreat and 1 ML loss (apiece) per combat. Standard Rule 12.8 restricts any player's ability to take more than one loss from an infantry unit until all infantry units have taken a loss. To summarize, He who picks the losses gets to pick the unit with five restrictions: 1. If barraging a hex whose defenders are not revealed to the attacker (new errata) 2. If it is the first time that the opposing player stipulates a Strength Point loss, it must come from a combat class unit (Standard Rule 10.43C). Note that this applies to the cases "b" through "f" above, but not to case "a" (i.e., barrage combat losses). 3. No player can chose to lose cadre Strength Points if non-cadre SP are available. (Standard Rule 12.32) 4. No player can chose to lose more than 1 ML and 1 retreated hex per combat per player (Standard Rule 12.7) 5. No player can chose to take more than 1 SP from an infantry unit in a combat until all infantry units have taken a loss (Standard Rule 12.8). "A related issue is whether 12.8 applies (limit of one loss per infantry unit until all take a loss) to the opposing player when choices are made (this assumes that the opposing player can pick a unit as opposed to a class or just a step loss so it may be a on-issue)?" I believe my list above clears this up. The opposing player could stipulate a particular unit, within the 5 restrictions given in my previous answer. I should note in closing that we are discussing only one of the several types of Loss Results here -- Strength Point losses determined by the opposing player. Other types of Loss Results include Artillery Superiority (Standard Rule 12.1), Combat Marker Removal (Standard Rule 12.2), Retreats (Standard Rule 12.4) and Morale Levels (Standard Rule 11). A Prisoner result may also be obtained (Standard Rule 12.5). David Bolt - 02:14pm Mar 29, 1999 PST (#226 of 228) Currently playing "Clash of Eagles: The Eastern Front 1914" The companion game to HBtLF. Michael Resch asks in #211: "If the defender, retreating before combat, is a Dummy unit is it revealed? Observation: An attacker would find no traces of enemy activity or discarded material due to a hasty retreat (and no stragglers/prisoners)." If it was retreating before combat due to a barrage, it is not revealed unless it was already revealed prior to the barrage. WWI was full of examples of barrages conducted on areas not first subjected to reconnaissance (with the result being shells frequently falling on empty fields). Fire combat, on the other hand, requires that all defending units be revealed in order to calculate combat, so there could not be a dummy unit retreating after combat from a Fire Combat. "What about the French Cavalry and Plan 17? Must they advance toward the nearest German and place combat markers?" Yes, but they will usually chose to conduct probe attacks only.I should note here for readers of the board that Mike is one of the playtesters for the new East Front counterpart to HBtLF. Mike has been the source of a great deal of development for the game system. One of Mike's propositions is that cavalry formations should be exempt from Army MO -- and he has a convincing argument. We may make that a change to the Standard Rules for the next game. Jerry Harnish - 05:50am Mar 30, 1999 PST (#227 of 228) Knoxville, Tennessee. Playtesting Ivy Street's "Bethesda Church Dave, Let me make sure I understand one of the clarifications above: if as the result of a fire combat the attacker incurs an SP loss, then a loss is incurred by each attacking hex. For example, if the FCRT yields a result of 1/2, and the attacker has launched from three hexes, then he will incur three SP losses, not one. Is this correct? Many thanks, Jerry Harnish David Bolt - 09:12am Mar 30, 1999 PST (#228 of 228) Currently playing "Clash of Eagles: The Eastern Front 1914" The companion game to HBtLF. Jerry Harnish asks in #227: "Let me make sure I understand one of the clarifications above: if as the result of a fire combat the attacker incurs an SP loss, then a loss is incurred by each attacking hex. For example, if the FCRT yields a result of 1/2, and the attacker has launched from three hexes, then he will incur three SP losses, not one. Is this correct?" You are correct. It is important to note that the attacker receives a shift for every hex above one that he is attacking from, so in your example above the attacker would recieve two shifts for attacking from three hexes.