Scott de Brestian - 10:41am Jan 1, 2002 PST (#9602 of 9729) Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd aimênu! Since Manchu has come up I thought I'd repost some comments I made in the Steam Age folder, which seem to have gone unnoticed: I've been trying out Berg's Manchu from S&T. I have a great interest in the Taiping Rebellion, and this game looked promising. Upon my first solo play, however, I came upon some rather odd/unhistoric situations.. I am posting my observations here to see what others think and to point out any mistakes I may have made. First: the map. Changsha is on the wrong side of the Hsiang river (shades of Abbeville)? Second: The TCT mechanism doesn't seem to work quite right. Through the first four turns, the two sides were averaging about 6-7 activations combined (and that includes the three free activations per turn). While the rolls were a bit skewed, it seems this could happen a lot. As a result, the Taipings had made it only as far as Kiukiang by the end of Turn 4 after playing more or less the historical strategy. Historically, they took less than a year to reach Nanking. I count about 15 historical activations for the first turn following the historical events. This degree of activity seems unlikely, given that after every Taiping pass there is a 25% chance of a Manchu pass (ending the turn), and after every Manchu pass there is a 16% chance of a Taiping pass even with Yang in charge. This passes over the possible Manchu strategy of passing deliberately after every Taiping pass, shortening the game and putting pressure on the Taipings. Suggestion: Borrowing from the Great Campaigns of the American Civil War series, I suggest the following. Each turn both sides roll a die for initiative. Taipings get +2 if the Manchus are Curious, +1 if Worried. High roller takes an activation. Repeat. If both sides roll the same, mark that on the turn track. If the number rolled is less than or equal to the number of doubles rolled so far, the turn ends. Third: Recruiting. The Taipings started out with about 40,000. By the time they reached Wuchang, they had increased to 100,000, without having occupied any major cities. By mass conscription, they increased their numbers to about half a million. They recieved another 250,000 reinforcements after taking Anking. That's 80 manpower points! Even accounting for the fact that many of those were not soldiers (or effective ones), there is no way to recreate the 'snowball effect' in the game. On the other side, the Manchus raised 50,000 to defend Changsha in a month or so, also not possible in the current system. I am working out revised Recruiting rules at least for the period until the Taipings get a capital. Will post those later -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott de Brestian - 10:41am Jan 1, 2002 PST (#9603 of 9729) Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd aimênu! Fourth: Sieges. The siege rules need work, IMO. Being in a major city is worth only 3 Battle Points, equivalent to having a 3:2 manpower advantage. The number of failed sieges on both sides would fill a list a mile long. Without effective artillery, it was very difficult. I suggest raising the BP value to 7 for a major and 4 for a minor city. Cannon should reduce this by 2 BP. In addition, the Taipings should get a sapper counter when they recruit in a city adjacent to rough terrain. This represents the coal miners that joined them early on. Effect is the same as cannon, but they move 6. Also, in few cases were sieges watertight. Reduce the roll needed to join a besieged force to: 6 for a minor city, 5-6 for a major, 4-6 for a provincial capital. In addition, forces in a city that lose a battle can choose not to retreat even if required to by the CRT. Fifth: Retreats. All forces must retreat towards their capital. This leads to odd results when the Taipings are striking south. Instead, forces retreat to the nearest friendly-controlled major city. Sixth: Rivers. The Taipings on many occasions were severly handicapped when they had to cross rivers without having naval support. Often, the Manchus would strip shipping from the opposite bank. Unsure how to simulate this, but crossing rivers without naval escort should be more chancy. Seventh: Shih Ta K'ai's defection/withdrawal is not simulated in the game. I am working on some rules to reflect this. Perhaps have him take charge of the largest Taiping stack and then require the Taiping player to move him at least 9 (or more?) hexes from the Taiping capital and remain outside that radius. Troops can be picked up, but not dropped off.