Roy K. Bartoo - 10:57pm May 10, 2001 PST (#2654 of 2671)

On Monday, two of us played the S&T issue game of Charlemagne (and a big
thanks to Roger Deal for giving me the issue!). There seems to be a bit
of a problem with the game. If the Empire player buys and hoards
Stratagem chits (which pretty much forces the Chaos player to do the
same), he can empty the chit cup. Then, he can be pretty much certain of
getting the chits he plays in the turn back, either by buying them in
the Treasury Phase, or by making enough attacks to get the chits back
through DD and DZ results. This chit hoarding kind of takes the fun out
of the variety of Stratagem chits. But where it really becomes a problem
is if the Empire player gets the "Honest Coinage" chit. Havig hoarded
chits, the Stratagem cup is empty or nearly so. The Empire player can
then play "Honest Coinage" in the Treasury phase, doubling his revenue -
and then buy it back, to ensure having it available for next turn. On
the other hand, in the (somewhat unlikely) event that the Chaos player
gets the chit, the game will change substantially.

True, there is one random event that forces a player to discard all of
his Stratagem chits - but that is a 2/36 chance.

I'm not sure how to fix this hoarding problem (or whether others would
even consider it a problem). Put a limit on how many non-Leader
Stratagem Markers a player can hold? Would a player get to choose which
ones he keeps (then he hoards the ones of use to his opponent) or draw
them randomly?

By the way, in our game I was the Chaos player. By judicious hoarding,
I'd managed to accumulate 5 Vassalage chits, which combined with
fortunate die rolls caused Neustria and Burgundy to switch from Empire
to Tribal in the same turn. I burned 15 cities that turn, laying waste
to the heart of Charlemagne's empire (Charles the Unlucky?) and my
opponent conceded. Which brought up another little wierdness with the
game. As soon as Neustria and Burgundy came over to my side, their
troops (half of whome were garrisoning cities in Lombardy and Austrasia)
cheerfully torched their own cities. Now, in the game context the Chaos
player has a lot of incentive to burn cities, as it hurts the Empire
player right in the vital spot (the Treasury). Cities that are captured
can be recaptured, but cities that are burnt not only furnish no taxes,
but require taxes to rebuild them. In reality, though, I suspect that
the local rulers were more interested in building up their own petty
kingdoms than in torching the place to spite Charles. Should units
perhaps be forbidden to pillage cities in their own Region?

Anyway, I enjoyed the game (although my opponent wasn't so enthused).

Roy

Elias Nordling - 12:57am May 11, 2001 PST (#2655 of 2671)
The Playtester from Hell

I'm not sure how to fix this hoarding problem (or whether others would
even consider it a problem). Put a limit on how many non-Leader
Stratagem Markers a player can hold? Would a player get to choose which
ones he keeps (then he hoards the ones of use to his opponent) or draw
them randomly?

I've noticed the problem too. Another aspect of it is that the Empire
player can get all the leaders this way. The suggested optional rule
that the blank counter is a "leader dies" stratagem should partly
alleviate this problem.

The most important thing for the chaos player is to pillage liberally
the first turn, or the empire player will get an income advantage that
will be hard to overcome.

David Cann - 01:54pm May 11, 2001 PST (#2665 of 2671)

I think the same strategem issues with Charlemagne also apply to
Xenophon. As a quick fix (if one is indeed necessary), instead of the
standard $2/strategem I think a graded cost might make the most sense.
Something like $2 for the first one purchased, $3 for the 2nd, $4 for
the 3rd, etc.

Z. Johnson - 05:18pm May 11, 2001 PST (#2667 of 2671)

I ran into the chit-hoarding problem in Charlemagne as well. One
solution is for the Chaos player to hoard Treachery markers, and nuke
the Honest Coinage as soon as it appears. That, and spend all his money
on Strategems (not really anything else worth spending money on), hoping
to pick it up.

The Chaos player does have a tough time of it. One Strategem that can
jump-start the Chaos player is Frankish General Assembly, which can
cause massive headaches for the Charlemagne player.

I didn't have any Strategem hoarding problems in Xenophon, something
about having to pay armies in the field limits the number of Strategems
that get bought.

Hmm, how about a Not-So-Honest Coinage Strategem :) ? (The names of
several national currencies come to mind)