From: "Crowley, Steve" Subject: [consim-l] War In Europe AAR 4 of us got together for a 3 day weekend to give the Decision games version of this old SPI game a run out. Set-up 2 of us met on the Thursday night and did as much of the set-up as we could. The only real time consuming part was deciding how to arrange the maps and the various charts. There are 9 maps , and 3 large production spirals. This is a BIG game and in the end the Spanish map had to be placed elsewhere. Setting up the counters seemed pretty quick - took something like 1.5 hours. Unfortunately I've lost my notes but we did notice 2 minor problems with the campaign set-up - A German unit sets in Poland and a Greek unit in the Med. Both easily resolved though Play Martin had played the computer version a number of times and he took on the role of Germany. He opened up with a pretty easy conquest of Poland (capture of Warsaw required for conquest). The Allies made a mistake in not force marching the Polish infantry to get them into better positions. A period of sitzkrieg then ensued - no invasion of Norway was attempted although Denmark feel under the Axis heel. By consent, I declared the Winter War on the Finns ( there seems to be no good reason to do it unless the players enforce it ) and took up my part of Poland. The battle of France started in summer 1940 and was a terrific slog for the Axis with some large air battles over the Western Front. The BEF consisted of a measly 2 divs while the Western Desert Force grew to an ominous size. France finally fell with a couple of clear weather cycles left and the Axis repositioned for a Mediterranean jaunt. Yugoslavia was quickly crushed but Greece held out for a long time - the slog through the mountains with difficult supply lines proving very costly in time. We missed the rule that the Germans could trace supply through neutral Axis minors but I also screwed up a good blocking position in the mountains buy not moving the Greek infantry fast enough. The British garrisoned Crete heavily but otherwise did not intervene. Winter saw the Axis hoards position themselves in the Soviet border where I had been digging in where I could. The Axis waited until June 1941 to invade - May is an option but 2 of the weeks are mud followed by 2 clear. He wanted 4 full weeks of good weather to put maximum pressure on the Russians. Well, despite all the excellent advice I got from list members, I still managed to lose over 100 div (about 106 I think) in the first 4 cycles hence my industry went into shock (no on map arms production, Siberia unaffected). I simply hadn't realised how immobile my infantry would become once they were in Axis ZOCS and had aircraft interdicting them as well. I got all the artillery out and a large proportion of armour and AT guns. Forgot to use the force march rule for infantry again and it cost me a lot of units. I set up a defensive line where best I could to basically act as a screen for other units to get away but another mistake left the mech and armour units on the wrong side of a river where Axix Zocs and interdiction meant they couldn't move. No minimum one hex move in this game. I am basically getting my arse kicked here but am I enjoying the game ? You betcha. I finally start working out some of the nuances of the game and with the advice of the list to always count where Axis supply can be traced I finally form a defence line out of reach of supplied Axis units and he then declines to attack. Respite at last ! I realise that supply will be difficult in the south for him and the other Axis player there is not too aggressive so I strip the south of a lot of units just leaving an armour screen. Axis supply lines will be restored to the Leningrad front first and this is where I place a lot of infantry 4-4 and AT guns backed up with all my artillery. I have this dug in 3 deep. He'll break it but it will be a hard slog and will get me more time. The central front is about 15 hexes (?) from Moscow dug in 2 deep with the first of the tank corps backing it up (about 12). The Germans will get in an offensive before Winter and will destroy lots of units but I feel I've done enough to survive. The other Axis player springs a surprise on me and attacks out of supply and takes Kiev. Overall I have lost 2 training centers, no arms center. I lost the training centers because I panicked. I moved the Kiev arms out and then Minsk. I had more time around Kiev than I thought so should have got everything out of Minsk first. Ah well - first time I've played it so mistakes were inevitable. We got to the end of August and did the strat cycle. The next few turns should be pretty quick as the Axis don't seem to be too keen to attack out of supply. The Brits are clearing North Africa with a large army and there are some titanic air battles going on there - 40+ air points per side. Overall We all enjoyed the game and hope to meet up soon to continue it. I hope we do as I'm getting a lot of 5-5 infantry arriving ! The map looks great - a number of people dropped by to say hello and all commented on it. Counters are bland but this has it's own quality ! It's pretty basic gaming so the turn are reasonably quick. The Axis turn on the invasion of Russia took about 45 mins but others have been completed in about 10 (especially when they are out of supply) Rules Problems Didn't expect these given the history of the game and the amount of effort expended on the computer version. We played with Allied production and manpower and Axis manpower. We can find no starting levels for manpower levels for the Brits, Germans and the US (when they arrive). For the Axis we took 300 points as the start from the computer game and this seems to have worked although levels are getting low already (80 or so). The Brits started on 0 and it doesn't seem to be a problem yet as they are in the 80-90's. If Allied production is in play, it would seem that they get no reinforcements for the first few turns until their production kicks in. However in the standard game, reinforcements arrive straight away. This will also be a problem when the US enters - no units until what has been produced turn up on the track. Cant find any errata on this but it is a definite problem. Thanks for reading and thanks to all who took time to answer my queries about defending Russia. I made mistakes but should at least survive. bit annoyed about losing 100 divs in the first 4 turns but it's a tricky one having to set up so close to the border anyway. Best regards Steve Crowley From: Hanno Meier Subject: Re: [consim-l] War In Europe AAR Steve, thanks for the interesting replay. I also have the DG version of WIE. WIE is a great team game. Especially as the russian player you will have some fun because the Axis must attack you OOS in my opinion to have a chance in 1942. (Don't tell them) He could replace his losses, but your troops are badly needed. If I remember the rules correctly, you have to loose 100 units within 5 Cycles (months) to cause Arms Center disruption. My experience is, that you cannot avoid it as the Russian. Look forward to the first winter. You will cause fear in the Axis ranks. His supply range is halved, the MSU's don't move (maybe you could catch one) and you could exchange any combat result (even AE) for an Attacker Retreat. So you could make lots of 1-1 attacks. Some will succeed. As a result, you could trap some german stacks. Later they could be attacked 9-1 and more. Have fun, From: "Jack Beckman" Subject: RE: [consim-l] War In Europe AAR >No minimum one hex move in this game. As long as you don't move INTO a ZOC (air interdiction doesn't count) you can move one hex no matter the cost (unless it is just plain prohibited for that unit to move to that hex). You CAN force march out of ZOCs with infantry. One solution to the 100 units problem was sprung on me - you can build the EQUIVILENT units to your required starting positions - that is, if you need 8x1-4s you can build 4x4-4 instead. They're much harder to kill, and when they die, they can't count for more than two dead units (once when they become BG and once when/if the BG dies). It's all there in the rules. > Rules Problems >We can find no starting levels for manpower levels for the Brits, Germans and the US (when they arrive). I think I got this from Web Grognards. Jack /------Life is Good....at the TOP of the Food Chain-----\ From: "Crowley, Steve" Subject: RE: [consim-l] War In Europe AAR Hi Jack > ---------- > From: Jack Beckman[SMTP:jackbeckman@webrise.net] > Sent: 07 July 2000 00:33 > To: Crowley, Steve > Cc: Consim-L > Subject: RE: [consim-l] War In Europe AAR > > >No minimum one hex move in this game. > As long as you don't move INTO a ZOC (air interdiction doesn't count) you > can move one hex no matter the cost (unless it is just plain prohibited > for > that unit to move to that hex). You CAN force march out of ZOCs with > infantry. Well the others were pretty sure you couldn't. I just checked the rules and you are right !! You can always move at least one hex as long as it isn't from one ZoC to another. Thanks Jack - that will get me a few drinks at the next get together. The Force March thing was just a brain fart. I know the rule, I know where it can be used - I just forgot it at a crucial time. > One solution to the 100 units problem was sprung on me - you can build the > EQUIVILENT units to your required starting positions - that is, if you > need > 8x1-4s you can build 4x4-4 instead. They're much harder to kill, and when > they die, they can't count for more than two dead units (once when they > become BG and once when/if the BG dies). It's all there in the rules. Yes - I had thought of that. The rules are quite explicit about the makeup of the border garrisons. The word "equivalent" is used a lot and they actually mention the conversion rate (4-4 = 3* 1-4 iirc). Think this must be the key. I didn't do it because I had calculated that I could fortify most of the border hexes by invasion time i.e convert one 1-4 to a 0-3-0 per clear weather turn. I reckoned then I could get away with the rest of the stuff since 0-3-0 cannot be overrun. Now you've pointed out that ZOC rule I'd love to do the initial turns again - ah well. > > Rules Problems > >We can find no starting levels for manpower levels for the Brits, Germans > and the US (when they arrive). > > I think I got this from Web Grognards. Can you recall where - most of the stuff seems to relate to the SPI version. I know the DG version was heavily influenced by the computer game so I assumed that the 2 were not completely compatible. > Jack > > /------Life is Good....at the TOP of the Food Chain-----\ From: "Crowley, Steve" Subject: RE: [consim-l] War In Europe AAR Hi Hanno > ---------- > From: Hanno Meier[SMTP:hmeier@uni-bremen.de] > Reply To: Hanno Meier > Sent: 06 July 2000 17:18 > To: consim-l@halisp.net > Subject: Re: [consim-l] War In Europe AAR > > Steve, > > thanks for the interesting replay. I also have the DG version of WIE. > > WIE is a great team game. > Especially as the russian player you will have some fun because > the Axis must attack you OOS in my opinion to have a chance > in 1942. (Don't tell them) He could replace his losses, but > your troops are badly needed. I'd guess you're right. The pressure was intense until he outran his supply lines then it all went away and the Red army got larger. > If I remember the rules correctly, you have to loose 100 units > within 5 Cycles (months) to cause Arms Center disruption. > > My experience is, that you cannot avoid it as the Russian. No I don't think you can avoid it. It was just a bit disappointing to fall victim in the first cycle ! I think with Jacks comment s bot building the 4-4 you can reduce the scale of the initial losses but I suspect that 100 units will be hit sooner rather than later. > Look forward to the first winter. You will cause fear in the > Axis ranks. His supply range is halved, the MSU's don't Nice one ! Hadn't thought of the MSUs yet ! Mind you I'm just trying to survive at the moment ! > move (maybe you could catch one) and you could exchange > any combat result (even AE) for an Attacker Retreat. So > you could make lots of 1-1 attacks. Some will succeed. Reminds me of the counterattack in Fire in the East - the Europa game. More or less did a mass of 1: 1.5:1 attacks with +2 or +3. Marvellous ! > As a result, you could trap some german stacks. Later they > could be attacked 9-1 and more. I can only dream :) :) > Have fun, Have already and I reckon it will get better. Cheers Steve