From: Arnaud Bouis Subject: Re: Steel Panthers (long) Robert Kasten writes: >Very nice review. This sounds great. > >Is it possible to install the game completely on the hard drive? >I want to put it on my laptop, and it doesn't have a built-in >CDROM. > >Bob K. The question was asked on Usenet, and no, it says the CD-ROM must remain in the drive. I don't have a CD-ROM reader either. If you like reviews here are other ones : ------------ Well, it just hit the stores today; I played one scenario. As usual these days, I don't have time for a full review, so here are the high points. Graphics are excellent, to the point where repeated smoke actually obscures things (this can be gotten around with unit tags, but it looks great.) Sound is good, music is redbook. 30 megs for a full install. Huge numbers of different weapons, vehicles and aircraft, 12 types of infantry. European and Pacific campaigns, random scenarios, period-based campaigns, full war campaigns. Play Russian, German, American, Japanese, British, US Army or US Marines in campaigns. Scenarios have other nationalities, I've noticed Free French and just played a scenario where the Finns do unspeakable things to a Soviet mech motorized unit. Morale is cumulative as "suppression", and is cured by rally attempts by nearby leaders. Sound familiar? :-) Units are equipped with various weapons and sometimes smoke, used automatically to cover retreats. My Finns carried SMG's (or rifles), some Lahti light MG's (or maybe a Maxim HMG), grenades, satchel charges and the occasional AT gun. Quantities are kept track of. Units have "shots", the number dependent on morale, quality, unit condition, movement and the like. The better the unit situation, the more shots they get to make. Opportunity fire exists, so your units are fired on as they move and fire. This makes the game pseudo-simultaneous, as opfire can serve to defend a unit. You can set a range for opfire to allow a unit to close before ambushing it, or simply to stay hidden. Indirect fire is called in by - you guessed it - leaders, and can take several turns to arrive. Units can be pinned down, positioned, retreating, or routed. Immobilize a vehicle and the crew will probably bail. Attack a retreating unit in the open and it will probably surrender, if you are adjacent to it. The scenario I played was lots of fun, it felt like a combo of Tanks! and ASL. Very good stuff, instant classic. If you are into the scale, tactical level stuff with max size of a battalion, buy this immediately. Oh yeah, it runs fine under the standard W95 DOS window, no PIF required, for those who care. David Pipes . ---------- In addition to the review above I would like to add a little bit about the Campaign features. There are nine campaigns, eight in Europe and one in the Pacific I believe. The system, believe it or not is very similar to that used in Panzer General. You get a set amount of "money" at the start in which to buy up to 24 core units. Your core units move from scenario to scenario, increasing their experience as they go along. They can also be upgraded between scenarios a la Panzer General. In addition you can buy up to 24 auxiliary units which do not proceed into the next scenario. As in Panzer General each scenario has a time limit and a group of objective hexes which must be controlled. The time limits are pretty short so you have to move fast. Overall I'd say the game is very reminiscent of Squad Leader (the original as I haven't played ASL). The AI seems pretty good. I've barely scratched the surface as there's alot of meat in this game. It's definately worth the money. -- Kevin Hurley ------ I played only the tutorial scenario last night and here's a quick review. Once you select the scenerio a brief video clip is played showing tanks, calvery etc... at war and you read a summary of the battle. Then you must purchase your equipment broken down into catagories: Armor, Artillary, Infentry, and Misc ( pill boxes, mines etc...). Once that is done you must place your units on the battle field. The map graphics are fantastic and the unit graphics are nice also. The infentry look a little strange but not too bad. You also can purchase off the map units, in my scenerio I picked 105mm artillary and 2 Stuka dive bombers. Once your units are placed its time for WAR!!! I went through the tutorial but it was still fun. I first called in artillary strikes on a hill and in a nearby village. The sound of the shells comming in was really nice and the graphics for the shells hitting were great. Blew thecrap out of the village and took out some of the enemy. Movement is very easy, just point and click. Animations are ok, reminds me of some of the board games I used to play a long time ago, but its still very nice. I thought you would only control a squad of tanks and the computer would control the rest. From what I can tell so far though is you control them all. Things could take a long time. Tons and tons of units are in the game and there is a nice reference guide on line so you can see what the units are. I think this game will deffinetly be a winner and I cant wait to play som e-mail games as well as some of the scenerios that will be created.... If anyone has questions let me know and I'll try to answer them. Remember though I've only played the tutorial!!! ----- EB ---- I picked up a copy of SP yesterday for $40 and it is pretty much everything I had expected. The graphics are very neat and work well to enhance the game. In terms of gameplay, it is excellent. There are 8 campaign games in both the European and Pacific theatres. In these games you keep your core units (max of 24) and they gain experience etc. in the same manner as PzGen.There are 60 individual scenarios, and room for 200 scenarios in total. There is a game editor that allows you to design everything from maps up, although you can get it to make random maps in different styles. In other wordds, expect numerous add on scenarios in this newsgroup alone.You can do all sort of hypothetical things like what if the Dutch did a massive infantry counter attack etc etc. The AI seems smart enough. I am playing the Poland campaign, and have completed the first 3 scenarios. Given the Germans huge technical superiority the computer is doing a reasonable job knocking out some of my tanks.This leads onto the point that in addition to suppresion, units can be routed and they will flee in panic, out of your control until they are safe behind your front line.Armor is modelled acurately with appropriate weapons and different armor thickness ratings for front , back and sides on both the hull and turret. Furthermore, special rounds are offered such as HEAT, HVAP etc. Each unit has several shots per turn, (each turn represents a couple of minutes) depending on the state of the unit, the state of the weapons and the number of men left in the unit. For example, don't expect an anti-tank gun with just 1 guy left to operate it tp manage many shots per turn.... Although there is no fog of war, there is a lot of smoke. Smoke obscures visibility and is caused by units firing (a lot), units being hit, nuits on purpose creating smoke (when retreating) , trees and buildings being hit and being set alight etc. This is a nice touch and after a heated exchange of gunfire between two large platoons, there is a lot of fires and smoke in the air. Pretty neat. And all these graphics are nicely animated. Overall, this game seems to have all the complexity that we have been wainting for. For a total novice, I would still recommend PzGen, but if you itched for more detail in PzGen then Steel Panthers is for you. The only two gripes I have is that (i) the manual is way way to short and s kimpy and (i (ii) I wish that it was clearer which weapons are better at different things. For most people, it is not clear exactly what the tradeoff between barrel width and length are, so it is not immediatly obvious which tank is better at taking out other tanks etc. But overall, worth every cent I spent on it. Coenraad. -------------- and an execussion phase. Steel Panthers their aren't 2 seperate phases. You select a unit. Your allowable moves are highlighted as in PzGen. And point to where you want to move. You can fire/move/fire any order for each unit. Each unit has a specific movement allowance and so many shots per turn. So if you use up all your available shots during your move then you will not have any left over for oportunity fire. I saw another posting initially saying there was no fog of war. There is 3 possible settings for spotting and accuracy. Easy = easy to spot hidden units and hit your target. Medium = normal, Hard = hard to spot hidden units and hit your target. Tim ---------- >I would still like so see some comparison between Steel Panther and >Panthers in the Shadows. At what levels is it possible to control the >units? Platoon level/individual level/company level? How good is >the command/control? (The moral seems to be good by the comments). Any >delays in your orders? Are there a chain of command? Suppression results in loss of available op fire and even movement. Suppression directly affects moral. If a units moral is low enough it will rout, retreat, or even surrender. Delays in orders for bombardments. I think the actual time represented for each turn is longer in Steel Panthers than in PitS, allthough I couldn't find it specified Steel Panther`s manual. Most games last from 10 to 20 turns. Not near as many that a PitS game last. > >What about engineers for demolition and such? And airdrops? Engineers can blow up bridges. Havn`t seen anything on airdrops. The manual mentions barges for inf.