From: Steve Crowley Subject: Re: The Longest Day (AH) (was SPI) Rusty Witek wrote: > > > > > One of my gaming group just called to say that he had picked up a copy of > > this monster-of-monsters. I know little about it, except that it's very > > big. Anybody care to share some memories, experiences, commentary? > > (We seem to have decided that we'll play anything that's big; our last few > > games: 3 Days of Gettysburg, Wacht am Rhein, Battles of Waterloo). > > But wait, it's the AH game, not the one I was thinking of. What's the > enormous SPI game on the Normandy landings? (It is Longest Day we'll be > playing.) > > Rusty The SPI version is Atlantic Wall. The beach landings and subsequent build up are great fun but our group found that to win as the Allies you defend most of the beaches with the Americans and take all the British stuff to the clear gound West of Caen and then use your armour and artillery to clobber the Germans. Longest Day (LD) was the AH version. The better game in my opinion. The supply system for the Allies is a very clever piece of design. You have supply counters and expend these when units attack or bombard. The supply units then "go back to England" where they enter the reinforcement cycle before landing in Normany again (about 10 turns ?). It gives the feeling of building up your supplies for an offensive, blowing them all and then waiting to store supply for the next offensive. Lovely system. It is a monster though taking longer to play than Atlntic Wall (AW). LD is also more interesting for the Germans as you have the ability to counterattack and indeed, should do so. The German attacks seemed to fizzle out in AW once the Allies were firmly ashore. Saying that, I would play either but LD gets my vote. It's good basic wargaming - not too many special rules and unfamiliar territory so you can get into it very quickly - although watch the sequence of play - it has some quirks. The biggest being the reserve movement in the other guys turn. You move units up to him where you want to exploit in YOUR turn, blow him away in the barrage phase of HIS turn and, voila, you have a gap !! Bit naff but if all players are aware of this it poses few problems. LD is a game where I actually like taking the part of Eisenhower and not push counters around but choose which reinforcements to land and where to send supplies for the next offensive - the CinC role. Great fun. Whoops - rambling on a bit here. Good luck - you'll have fun. Steve From: "Arius V. Kaufmann" Subject: Re: The Longest Day (AH) (was SPI) > Longest Day (LD) was the AH version. The better game in my opinion. > The supply system for the Allies is a very clever piece of design. > You have supply counters and expend these when units attack or > bombard. The supply units then "go back to England" where they enter > the reinforcement cycle before landing in Normany again (about 10 > turns ?). It gives the feeling of building up your supplies for > an offensive, blowing them all and then waiting to store supply for > the next offensive. Lovely system. > I must echo the praises of my esteemed colleague. The supply system is VERY elegant. > ...The biggest being the reserve movement in > the other guys turn. You move units up to him where you want to exploit > in YOUR turn, blow him away in the barrage phase of HIS turn and, > voila, you have a gap !! Bit naff but if all players are aware of this > it poses few problems. The problem here is that your opponent can move mechanized units between your general movement phase and your combat phase. This means that if you advance to attack a stack of german armour, he can retreat it during mech phase and move it back during his regular movement phase and never lose the territory. Your only option is to collect artillery from several divisions and blow the stack away during your "defensive fire" phase. This can use lots of supply. (One supply per three artillery units, 5 firepower each. German 21st armoured, which starts near Caen, has at least one 10 defense armour unit, so you can imagine how many artillery units you need to collect to effectively remove a stack of armour. This example uses British arty. US arty is more robust.) The other nifty thing about LD is the loss system. You almost never lose a "unit". Its strength can rapidly diminish to 0, however, through a system of having a reduced side and then "remnants". You can go about rebuilding these remnants into their original strength with the "replacements" you receive. > LD is a game where I actually like taking the part of Eisenhower and > not push counters around but choose which reinforcements to land and > where to send supplies for the next offensive - the CinC role. Great > fun. > LD is actually my favourite game. I especially enjoy playing the somewhat weaker British (Do more with less). > Good luck - you'll have fun. > > Steve > Arius Subject: Re: The Longest Day From: anders.egneus@*REMOVE.THIS.TEXT*bioquest.se (Anders Egneus) "Brian Sommers" wrote: >im looking for the longest day from AH. i remember it was in a large flat >red box, i think anyway. > >im interested in learning more about it cause im thinking about buying it, >from what i've heard sounds rather intense, does anyone have it and is >playing it?? Summary: If you enjoy monsters, try it. It is the ultimate game on the Normandy campaign (at least until the Gamers make one in OCS). Get several players, having someone to talk strategy and tactics with makes this game twice as fun. (And speeds up play...) Details: It *is* a monster. With lots of experience (we have played it several times) we can run a turn in something like 45 minutes for the germans and an hour for the allies, not counting the invasion turn. And you need even more board space than 4x5 feet, you have two displays (50x30 cm?) that you need to have set up somewhere, plus some extra space for various counters, other displays etc. We wore out our first set and has bought a new one (that lies still unopened, as we are working thorugh OCS now...) The system should be easy to learn if you have ever played any operational game with ZOCs (but the lack of ZOCs in this game is going to get you at first. :). Skip the tutorials, you might as well play the invasion straight off. If you can handle a gazillion counters, you can handle a little extra rules. (And the scenarios are pretty boring.) Bad things: * Unless the Germans break early (it happens - sometimes you can break throught the Caumont Gap and gain enough position to make the german position hopeless), you are in for a *long* game! * The system is not the most realistic one - the use of defensive artillery fire to punch holes seems a bit weird, for example. YMMV here. Minor nitpicks: * The 6th AB is in for a lot more trouble than it was historically with the HQ getting blown up early. (There is variants to tweak this) * You need to tweak the invasion Coastal Artillery fire a bit or the game could be over before it starts (I once took five hits on Omaha, for those who know what I'm talking about.) (There is also variant/errata written for this) Good things: * It is a lovely game, even if the German mostly get to defend a lot. If you care about the good game, it is a throughly enjoyable ride. * It gives what I believe is a very good feel for the campaign - without making you think that you are forced into a historical position. * The system things I've mentioned above does not bother me when we play - the system is very smooth. * The amount of data on the pieces are incredible, and you tend to get involved in the fate of single pieces - very good immerision. * And playing it as a team with one or two other players is wonderful. Just divide the germans in an east & west sector.