From: "Benjamin Hitz" Subject: Kreig rookie runthrough! Kreig!, along with a cute little Aussie beer-n-pretzls game call Rubout! was my last purchase of 1997 I sat down sat. and ran through Kreig solo. I played for about 8-9 hours (including setup and punching), and got almost to winter 1940. Of course, I spent alot of time looking up rules and such. It's pretty neat - alot of the rules are a little quirky, and 'debreifing' led me to conclude that I had blown more than a couple of them, but it was fun. Now, what happened was a little bizzare. I was playing 'with cards in historical order' which is good to know, however, I probably would have made a critical adjustment (as the axis). I stormed into Poland turn 1, conquering it without losing a step - although I would have set it up slighly different had I actually READ the minor country conquering rules (hold all cities) - I thought I had to annihilate the entire polish army - which I came within 1 step of doing. The allies didn't do much - except get ready for the inevitable. One possibly critical thing was that I rolled an 'Axis Agression - Greater Germany' result on the pol. table - the odds of this were not high - 1/3 * 1/3 * 1/6 I think which resulting in Germany having to chose one of here border nations to go over to the other side. After passing over Hungary, Italy, and Sweden, I had to chose between Belguim-Holland (one country!) and Denmark-Norway. Seeing as I was out of position to occupy BH, and DN only had one cheesy step anyway, I chose the latter. Believe it or not - this saved France! (helped along by a few strategic blunders). FF a few turns to Spring. Only thing that as happened is some mobilization, and a small battle over Copenhagen (I think germans lost an armor step). There are two spring turns - to get a blitz action in the first one (the second is mud), G. has to declare war on a neutral (5 in 6 chance of sucess). Belgium/Holland gets the nod, as the Wehrmact captures Belgium and attacks Norway. Norway has basically the one cheesy reserve corps, plus anything the british are willing to risk (1-2 steps), BUT they have Narvik which is way north. Now because of the early activation of Denmark/Norway - I ended up sending a couple Brits and the Norwegian to hunker down behind a mountian in the rough, blocking access to Narvik. That's 3 column shifts for those scoring at home. Now the problem axis-wise is this: Norway has 6 cities all of which must be garrisoned for it to be captured. There are two ways to Norway - through Sweden (considered but discarded), or amphib. The way amphib works is very strange in Kreig. Basically, you assign an air-support to a sea area, if it is uncontested you are allowed to convert to a beach head in any all sea hex. This allows you to build bridges between denmark and norway (or france and england). The problem is, movement throught them is slow (1 hex/turn) and the only last 1 turn. So if you want more than one stacking limit, you have to use another Air support next turn (Luftwaffe ca. 1940 is 4 air support counters). I thought I really needed another inf step, so I wasted an air support here the next turn as well. That was huge - I could have used that badly in france, plus I didn't really need the step. My LAST blunder in norway, was using armor (faster, plus can be built into a powerful army). Well, this was overkill that didn't help - and I needed that Panzer army in france. Plus I also used my airborne to get a another step in Norway. Upon further reflection, I THINK Narvik is only a _port_ not a city, which kinda messes up my game a little; Norway would have fallen, and my little behind the mountain in the rough defense would not have worked. Now that I think about it, I wasn't even garrisoning Narvik... Anyway, I ended up tieing too much armor and air in fucking _Norway_ to take france down in time (in historical play, 'french ultimatum' is played in the 3-turn summer segment. You hold paris at the end of the turn, France collaspes. Otherwise you have to do this the hard way (hold all cities). The final mistake I made was overgarrisioning the hexes near the maginot line, and wasting a couple decent odds assaults on one of the ML hexes. Best to just totally avoid it and hammer your way through properly. I wouldn't have attack the fortresses at all but I had all this inf. standing around them... Two wrongs didn't make a right, and I ended up launching but a token assault on paris before Fall. One cutsy thing that happened. Again via the political tables, I ended up getting Spain activated as a German ally - but with a 'free passage' result, which basically means you get spain with Norways' army to defend it (you have to build the rest of the army a tiny bit at a time). Had I used it better, it might have helped subdue france the hard way. This was via a Churchill presures neutrals, followed by Axis agression (neutral) Spain, with Germany taking a chance on the Diplomatic Incident table (this is really not a good idea without at least a +2 DRM - there is a 1 in 6 chance of Allied Coup (see below...) Now, two things happen when france _collapses_ (as opposed to brutal conquest). One, Vichy is created (yawn). Two, Germany gets a free ally bordering france (i.e, Italy). So in my scenario, Italy remains neutral through fall 1940... until... The German fall option card is 'Treaty' which means each turn (2) you get to berate neutrals into joining you. Usually used on Hungary, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, maybe Spain. I of course, was using them on Italy. Now, there are modifiers on all these rolls - for the Treaty basically the better the axis is doing, the better chance of getting an ally. Without paris, I was one mod behind the times. I rolled a 5 or 6 'Diplomatic Incident' followed by a 2. 'Coup' on the DI table. Italy is activated as an ALLIED minor ally. It was late - I decided not to continue. the USSR has a pretty boring first 10+ turns. You get to make a big line of red guys, and start border wars, but they are resolved by table, not tactical combat (you pile a bunch of guys into E. Poland, roll a die, trying to get Poland to ceed you the border, usually at the cost of a step or two. Ditto Finland, Rumanian, and (ahistorical option) Turkey. These are nice as you get a more forward defense, plus if you have Fin/Pol borders the Baltic States (and their one step) "join" you. Also, the more ceeded borders you have, the more tank steps you get. (Product development and testing). If you roll really badly and don't risk 'good units' (tanks, HQ) you have a chance of losing your whole force if you don't get the border ceeded by the end of the season. This is avoidable if you are careful; also on a roll of 1 or 6 with only a token force, you can activate country as a german minor ally... something that's not necessarily a bad thing if ol' Adolf is having trouble with the Frogs - you can then attack said ally w/out violating Pact. Ironic that the Q&A report from the designers states that they had 'never seen an allied Italy'. Just goes to show you what a slighly incompetant, quite reckless axis player who only has ~80% of the rules down pat can acomplish! Void Where Prohibited * Laden With Cosmic Significance "Second place? Second place in a gunfight gets you an 80 lb. granite trophy, enscribed with your name and the date." +============================================================== Ben Hitz* hitz@burrito.bioc.columbia.edu *Dept. of Biochemistry *** http://tincan.bioc.columbia.edu/Home/ben.home/ *** -- Void Where Prohibited * Laden With Cosmic Significance "Second place? Second place in a gunfight gets you an 80 lb. granite trophy, enscribed with your name and the date." +============================================================== Ben Hitz* hitz@burrito.bioc.columbia.edu *Dept. of Biochemistry *** http://tincan.bioc.columbia.edu/Home/ben.home/ *** Subject: Re: Kreig rookie runthrough! From: Allan Bell >Kreig!, along with a cute little Aussie beer-n-pretzls game call Rubout! >was my last purchase of 1997 I also recently purchased Kreig! from the ex-consimer Doug Adams (another Aussie). It is a great game for solitaire play and brought me some interesting insights into WWII. I did notice some possible rules errors in your play. Don't worry, I made enough myself. >chance of sucess). Belgium/Holland gets the nod, as the Wehrmact captures >Belgium and attacks Norway. Norway has basically the one cheesy reserve >corps, plus anything the british are willing to risk (1-2 steps), Keep in mind that the Norway unit is a reserve unit so it doesn't set up. It just goes in the allied force pool (as would have the Polish unit earlier). It can come in as a replacement later on. So DN will be empty at the time of the DoW. The reserve unit can come in at the next seasonal turn as a placement as a result of the Allied Tide 1. As a now friendly allied country the british can sail across to Narvik, Oslo or any of the other ports which can slow down the Germans. >BUT they >have Narvik which is way north. Now because of the early activation of >Denmark/Norway - I ended up sending a couple Brits and the Norwegian to >hunker down behind a mountian in the rough, blocking access to Narvik. >That's 3 column shifts for those scoring at home. Now the problem >axis-wise is this: Norway has 6 cities all of which must be garrisoned >for it to be captured. Remember the difference between ports and cities. DN has two cities, Oslo and Copenhagen. Once these are occupied by the Germans then DN collapses and the Norway reserve unit (even if on the map - say in Narvik) is removed and placed in the conquered allied units pool where it could come back as a partisan unit. Once DN collapses the British and French have to garrison DN ports to be able to use them. A collapsed countries ports are only usuable by a power that garrisons them. That includes the Germans using those ports too. It is easy to see who controls what. >There are two ways to Norway - through Sweden >(considered but discarded), or amphib. The way amphib works is very >strange in Kreig. Basically, you assign an air-support to a sea area, if >it is uncontested you are allowed to convert to a beach head in any all >sea hex. Basically Kreig! is a land game not a sea game. The air-support point represents the resources required to protect the convoys and amphibious units. In the same way that Overlord required mastery of the air to be successful. >This allows you to build bridges between denmark and norway (or >france and england). The problem is, movement throught them is slow (1 >hex/turn) and the only last 1 turn. So if you want more than one stacking >limit, you have to use another Air support next turn (Luftwaffe ca. 1940 >is 4 air support counters). I thought I really needed another inf step, >so I wasted an air support here the next turn as well. That was huge - I >could have used that badly in france, plus I didn't really need the step. >My LAST blunder in norway, was using armor (faster, plus can be built into >a powerful army). Well, this was overkill that didn't help - and I needed >that Panzer army in france. Plus I also used my airborne to get a another >step in Norway. Beachhead units are also ports so you can sail to them. Place them next to an unoccupied port in Norway (assuming the Western Allies haven't used 5 units to garrison them all). If it is a blitz turn you can land for free - if not use the reserve turn to grab the port. Once you have a port you can start shipping corps in. Historically Narvik didn't fall until the invasion of France and the game simulates that well. The British could hang on but their steps are limited and they can't afford to commit heavily there without risking Sea Lion. You should be able to get away with one or two air units in Norway at worst. By the time of the French invasion they should be back - six turns would be the longest they will be missing. > >Upon further reflection, I THINK Narvik is only a _port_ not a city, >which kinda messes up my game a little; Norway would have fallen, >and my little behind the mountain in the rough defense would not have worked. >Now that I think about it, I wasn't even garrisoning Narvik... It is an axis objective so you don't have to garrison it but if the allies do then you subtract that from the allied objective hexes. But garrisoning it is a good idea. >Ironic that the Q&A report from the designers states that they had 'never >seen >an allied Italy'. Just goes to show you what a slighly incompetant, quite >reckless axis player who only has ~80% of the rules down pat can acomplish! > hey, we all have a chance to star. :-) There are some good discussions on Kreig! on the virtual wargamer discussion board. Kreig has one of the busiest areas. It is useful reading through the old notes. Also, there is a good site dedicated to Kreig! Much reading of this helped me through my first couple of games. I still keep making mistakes but I think I'm starting to get it down pat. It was worth the investment of time and money. It is clear why it is a popular game. thanks, Allan --------- Today is the first day of the rest of your life. ...but then again, so is tomorrow. From: "Benjamin Hitz" Subject: Re: Krieg rookie run-though On Jan 14, 11:08am, Benjamin Hitz wrote: > Subject: Krieg rookie run-though > >chance of sucess). Belgium/Holland gets the nod, as the Wehrmact captures > >Belgium and attacks Norway. Norway has basically the one cheesy reserve > >corps, plus anything the british are willing to risk (1-2 steps), > > Keep in mind that the Norway unit is a reserve unit so it doesn't set up. > It just goes in the allied force pool (as would have the Polish unit > earlier). It can come in as a replacement later on. It probably wasn't clear but Den/Nor was activated as an allied minor ally the w. allied turn after Poland fell (coalition roll - axis agression - greater germany). My guess is that this was a dumb play on my Axis brain, instead of Den/Nor he should have designated Bel/Hol. > So DN will be empty at the time of the DoW. The reserve unit can come in > at the next seasonal turn as a placement as a result of the Allied Tide > 1. As a now friendly allied country the british can sail across to > Narvik, Oslo or any of the other ports which can slow down the Germans. I built it in the winter. > Remember the difference between ports and cities. DN has two cities, > Oslo and Copenhagen. Once these are occupied by the Germans then DN > > collapses and the Norway reserve unit (even if on the map - say in > Narvik) is removed and placed in the conquered allied units pool where it > could come back as a partisan unit. Yeah, there are only two cities in norway, plus Copenhagen - 4 ports. So basically worst case scenario given an early Den/Nor activation is to garrison Oslo with a step or two, and make the Germans send 3 or 4 inf instead of 1+Airborne. You could also try to hold Narvik, but would lose the pathetic little Den/Nor reserve corps when the cities were captured -- Void Where Prohibited * Laden With Cosmic Significance "Second place? Second place in a gunfight gets you an 80 lb. granite trophy, enscribed with your name and the date." +============================================================== Ben Hitz* hitz@burrito.bioc.columbia.edu *Dept. of Biochemistry *** http://tincan.bioc.columbia.edu/Home/ben.home/ *** From: Steven Bucey Subject: Re: Krieg rookie run-though Benjamin Hitz wrote: > > Remember the difference between ports and cities. DN has two cities, > > Oslo and Copenhagen. Once these are occupied by the Germans then DN > > > collapses and the Norway reserve unit (even if on the map - say in > > Narvik) is removed and placed in the conquered allied units pool where it > > could come back as a partisan unit. > > Yeah, there are only two cities in norway, plus Copenhagen - 4 ports. So > basically worst case scenario given an early Den/Nor activation is to garrison > Oslo with a step or two, and make the Germans send 3 or 4 inf instead of > 1+Airborne. You could also try to hold Narvik, but would lose the pathetic > little Den/Nor reserve corps when the cities were captured > No, there is only *one* city in Norway, Oslo. For DN to colapse you need Copenhagen and Oslo. Narvik and all the other ports are irrelevent, as far as colapsing DN is conserned. -- --------------------------------------- The Columbus Area Boardgaming Society web site: http://web.jadeinc.com/spqr