From: "ASF" Subject: Re: AH - Atlantic Storm I've played one game of Atlantic Storm, and it was obvious to everyone that there are far too many things to deal with regarding the cards in your hand. First, you must check the years of your cards against the year of the current Convoy card, and the backgrounds of your cards (Arctic, Atlantic or both) against the Convoy card. Then you can check for a "fated" card against the Convoy card. This is all you can really do while waiting for your turn to come around. At that point you must check your strength in the named suit for each side (German or Allied), examine your cards again for possible "fated" kills against cards which have already been played, weigh the chances of a fated kill against a card that you may play, add up the total points played for each side in the named suit, decide if you can be the ultimate winner in either side, decide which side youd like to see win if you can't get any VP's, whether or not the play of a Special card would be a good idea, whether or not you might want to save a good card for later instead of playing it now, and whether or not just playing a discard would be the right thing to do. (Have I missed anything?) Only then can you make your play. Multiply all this by five (or six) players times 20 Convoys, and well the game dragged on interminably, and any dreams of an "excitement level" or even fun simply vaporized. I'm working on a variant will remove some of the game's tactical decision-making, but it will speed up play considerably, add an element of bluff, create some excitement and hopefully make playing the game f-u-n. As one guy in the game in which I played put it: "this is a light game. Light games should be fast, relatively mindless, and fun." I believe my variant (which I'll be posting in a day or so) will help move Atlantic Storm in the right direction. It's certainly the only way I'm ever going to get anyone in my gaming world to play the damn game. ASF gracanh@mafpz.fpz.hr wrote in message <6f8t9b$bq3$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >I have just seen on the AH web site that Atlantic Storm has been shipped more >then a week ago. Has anyone tried it yet? Is it any good? Thanks, Hrvoje > > >-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading Re: AH - Atlantic Storm From: C-Dog Los! ASF on zee port bow! Open tubes einz und drei! Feuer! ASF wrote: > > I've played one game of Atlantic Storm, and it was obvious to everyone that > there are far too many things to deal with regarding the cards in your hand. Your first statement is the telling one: you've only played one game. Try not go overboard (oh, I can't resist a nautical pun right now ;) before you've played a couple of games. > First, you must check the years of your cards against the year of the > current Convoy card, and the backgrounds of your cards (Arctic, Atlantic or > both) against the Convoy card. Then you can check for a "fated" card against > the Convoy card. > > This is all you can really do while waiting for your turn to come around. Really? Try manipulating your opponents into committing themselves to one side or another as suits you and your hand. Use your position in the trick to play people against one another, shifting the battle the way *you* want it to go. >(Have I missed anything?) Yes. Although there is are several factors to consider before making a play, there is a helluva lot less garbage to filter through than in most card games (Magic, BTech, etc.). Furthermore, after you actually play through a few hands, you'll find that it takes no time to see what cards are valid plays in your hand and which are not, as well as what plays are *smart* and which are not. There is a very nice flow to the game, with very subtle tactics that are not readily apparent in your first games. > Multiply all this by five (or six) players times 20 Convoys, and well… the > game dragged on interminably, and any dreams of an "excitement level" or > even fun simply vaporized. No fun or excitement? I don't follow this at all. The game has a quick playing time, and always seems to be a close race in the finish. It's even possible for a (lucky/skilled) player to make a come-from-behind win on the reversals of fortune that come in Atlantic Storm. The gameplay is super, and the constantly shifting alliances make for great table-talk. How is this not fun or exciting? > I'm working on a variant will remove some of the game's tactical > decision-making, but it will speed up play considerably, add an element of > bluff, create some excitement and hopefully make playing the game f-u-n. AAARRGGHH!!! Sure, destroy the fine balance of the game and all the tactical nuances. Unless you are playing Slap-Jack, I don't see how you can speed up the game. "Hmmm. You played the 'Hood'? How dya like this?" "Bismarck!" "Oh, you win..." All sarcasm aside, I think you're overlooking alot in this game. My wife, who has never even played poker, played this game and picked up on it immediately and had a great time. As a hardcore grognard, I love this game for its elegant rules and fun play, as well as the neat twist on historical gaming. >As > one guy in the game in which I played put it: "this is a light game. Light > games should be fast, relatively mindless, and fun." Atlantic Storm is fast and fun. Mindless? No, but definitely fast and fun. > I believe my variant (which I'll be posting in a day or so) will help move > Atlantic Storm in the right direction. It's certainly the only way I'm ever > going to get anyone in my gaming world to play the damn game…. Too bad, since you'll be missing out on a really cool game. Now, time to sink some more merchies... C-Dog From: "ASF" Subject: RE: ATLANTIC STORM (NEW COMMENTS ARE IN CAPS FOR CLARITY) >> First, you must check the years of your cards against the year of the >> current Convoy card, and the backgrounds of your cards (Arctic, Atlantic or >> both) against the Convoy card. Then you can check for a "fated" card against >> the Convoy card. This is all you can really do while waiting for your turn to >> come around. >Really? Try manipulating your opponents into committing themselves to >one side or another as suits you and your hand. Use your position in the >trick to play people against one another, shifting the battle the way >*you* want it to go. UNTIL IT'S YOUR TURN, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE ANY REALISTIC IDEA WHICH WAY YOU WANT THE BATTLE TO GO. FURTHERMORE, IF TWO PLAYERS AHEAD OF YOU -- AN ALLIED AND A GERMAN -- HAVE ALREADY PLAYED CARDS WHICH YOU CANNOT BEAT, YOU DON'T REALLY GIVE A DAMN **WHO** WINS THE BATTLE! >> Multiply all this by five (or six) players times 20 Convoys, and well >> the game dragged on interminably, and any dreams of an "excitement level" or >> even fun simply vaporized. >No fun or excitement? I don't follow this at all. The game has a quick >playing time, and always seems to be a close race in the finish. It's >even possible for a (lucky/skilled) player to make a come-from-behind >win on the reversals of fortune that come in Atlantic Storm. The >gameplay is super, and the constantly shifting alliances make for great >table-talk. How is this not fun or exciting? AN "ALLIANCE" LASTS FOR A SINGLE TURN, AND THERE IS NOTHING "QUICK" ABOUT THE GAME. ASSUMING A MINUTE PER PLAYER TURN, AND A 5-PLAYER GAME, IT'LL TAKE 1 HOUR, 40 MINUTES. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT WE EXPERIENCED -- TOO LONG FOR A LIGHT GAME. >> I'm working on a variant which will remove some of the game's tactical >> decision-making, but it will speed up play considerably, add an element of >> bluff, create some excitement and hopefully make playing the game f-u-n. >AAARRGGHH!!! Sure, destroy the fine balance of the game and all the >tactical nuances. Unless you are playing Slap-Jack, I don't see how you >can speed up the game. >"Hmmm. You played the 'Hood'? How dya like this?" >"Bismarck!" > >"Oh, you win..." WHAT YOU DESCRIBE IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT ALREADY DOES HAPPEN IN THE GAME. SOMEONE PLAYS THE HOOD, IF SOMEONE ELSE IS LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE THE BISMARCK IN HAND, HE SINKS IT WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT. I HARDLY CALL THIS A "TACTICAL NUANCE." (BTW, YOU DON'T **HAVE** TO USE MY VARIANT; MAYBE IT'LL IMPROVE THE GAME FOR SOME PEOPLE, MAYBE NOT. THE WORLD CONTINUES SPINNING.) >All sarcasm aside, I think you're overlooking alot in this game. My >wife, who has never even played poker, played this game and picked up on >it immediately and had a great time. As a hardcore grognard, I love this >game for its elegant rules and fun play, as well as the neat twist on >historical gaming. ODD THAT YOU MENTION POKER, SINCE IT HAS A CONSIDERABLE ELEMENT OF BLUFF, WHICH ATLANTIC STORM DOES NOT. (MY VARIANT WILL ADD SOME BLUFFING TO THE GAME.) >>As one guy in the game in which I played put it: "this is a light game. Light >> games should be fast, relatively mindless, and fun." >Atlantic Storm is fast and fun. Mindless? No, but definitely fast and fun. AT LEAST FIVE PLAYERS' OPINIONS ARE THAT IT IS NEITHER FAST NOR FUN -- AT LEAST, NOT AS IT STANDS NOW. From: "Ylph" Subject: Re: ATLANTIC STORM ASF wrote in message <6fb875$1jq$1@newsreader.jvnc.net>... >(NEW COMMENTS ARE IN CAPS FOR CLARITY) > >>Really? Try manipulating your opponents into committing themselves to >>one side or another as suits you and your hand. Use your position in the >>trick to play people against one another, shifting the battle the way >>*you* want it to go. > >UNTIL IT'S YOUR TURN, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE ANY REALISTIC IDEA WHICH WAY >YOU WANT THE BATTLE TO GO. FURTHERMORE, IF TWO PLAYERS AHEAD OF YOU -- AN >ALLIED AND A GERMAN -- HAVE ALREADY PLAYED CARDS WHICH YOU CANNOT BEAT, YOU >DON'T REALLY GIVE A DAMN **WHO** WINS THE BATTLE! Ack! Turn off your caps lock! I don't understand this statement at all. Just because you can't win the battle, you don't give a damn who wins? I'd much rather have a player who doesn't have any convoys winning the battle than the guy who's currently winning the game. >AN "ALLIANCE" LASTS FOR A SINGLE TURN, AND THERE IS NOTHING "QUICK" ABOUT >THE GAME. ASSUMING A MINUTE PER PLAYER TURN, AND A 5-PLAYER GAME, IT'LL >TAKE 1 HOUR, 40 MINUTES. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT WE EXPERIENCED -- TOO LONG >FOR A LIGHT GAME. My gaming group played three games of Atlantic Storm in 2-1/2 hours. And that included pizza time.I don't know anyone who looks at their hand for a whole minute deciding which card to play. >ODD THAT YOU MENTION POKER, SINCE IT HAS A CONSIDERABLE ELEMENT OF BLUFF, >WHICH ATLANTIC STORM DOES NOT. (MY VARIANT WILL ADD SOME BLUFFING TO THE >GAME.) Did your group have an table talk at all? Several times when we played a player would promise to help out the Germans, or the Allies, and then play the opposite so he could get more spoils. The moment the first card goes down on the table, people were asking for help, lying, and otherwise making friends. Once we implemented the advanced rules on spoils -- which forces the victor to share his cards -- the amount of diplomacy went through the roof. >>>As one guy in the game in which I played put it: "this is a light game. >Light >>> games should be fast, relatively mindless, and fun." > >>Atlantic Storm is fast and fun. Mindless? No, but definitely fast and fun. > >AT LEAST FIVE PLAYERS' OPINIONS ARE THAT IT IS NEITHER FAST NOR FUN -- AT >LEAST, NOT AS IT STANDS NOW. Well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion. My group thinks it's one of the best card games to come out in years. The convoy cards could have been a little thicker, and the game's a little pricey, but I'd recommend to anyone. -Gregg Y. From: C-Dog Subject: Re: ATLANTIC STORM ASF wrote: > > (NEW COMMENTS ARE IN CAPS FOR CLARITY) > >Really? Try manipulating your opponents into committing themselves to > >one side or another as suits you and your hand. Use your position in the > >trick to play people against one another, shifting the battle the way > >*you* want it to go. > > UNTIL IT'S YOUR TURN, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE ANY REALISTIC IDEA WHICH WAY > YOU WANT THE BATTLE TO GO. FURTHERMORE, IF TWO PLAYERS AHEAD OF YOU -- AN > ALLIED AND A GERMAN -- HAVE ALREADY PLAYED CARDS WHICH YOU CANNOT BEAT, YOU > DON'T REALLY GIVE A DAMN **WHO** WINS THE BATTLE! Really? Even before the convoy is drawn you have some idea of how you want it to go: your way! After that, you want to make sure the leader doesn't add more convoys to his stack. Not until it's your turn? That's a joke. Even if you don't have the cards to pull out a win, you strike for spoils (often the deciding factor in a game) or the opportunity to sink a fated ship. Often, someone else makes a play that takes out the leader in a trick, leaving you in command. > AN "ALLIANCE" LASTS FOR A SINGLE TURN, AND THERE IS NOTHING "QUICK" ABOUT > THE GAME. ASSUMING A MINUTE PER PLAYER TURN, AND A 5-PLAYER GAME, IT'LL > TAKE 1 HOUR, 40 MINUTES. THIS IS PRECISELY WHAT WE EXPERIENCED -- TOO LONG > FOR A LIGHT GAME. An alliance can last as long as you want. More importantly, you work with others to gather spoils and prevent the leader from taking more convoys. As for time, after you play the game a time or two, you will find it moves very quickly. A minute per turn per player? We've played 4 games in about 3.5 hours (campaign style). > ODD THAT YOU MENTION POKER, SINCE IT HAS A CONSIDERABLE ELEMENT OF BLUFF, > WHICH ATLANTIC STORM DOES NOT. (MY VARIANT WILL ADD SOME BLUFFING TO THE > GAME.) No bluffing in Atlantic Storm? It's all about bluffing and table-talk. You really must have missed something! This game is more fun than Titan: the Arena, and that's high praise indeed! C-Dog