************ Topic 43 Mon Sep 16, 1991 DIPLOMACY-1 at 20:27 EDT Sub: The Gamers Online support and discussion of products from The Gamers, Inc. 2 new messages. ************ ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 189 Sat Jul 08, 1995 T.ARMSTRON10 at 08:25 EDT Hello all! Rules question here in Evansville concerning leader and HQ loss in the CWBS. If the overall commander is killed and his headquarters is taken, is there any detriment to the unlucky army? Or, since a corps commander takes his place and the overall HQ is for flavor, does nothing occur? Kind regards, Tim Armstrong ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 190 Sat Jul 08, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 08:57 EDT Stu: That's the first I've heard of a color differential between the two Thunder maps...fortunately this is also something our new printers watch for and try to adjust against to come up with the best match they can. Separate maps are $5 each, but I would advise buying a set (so I can try to ensure a good match for you before they leave here) otherwise, we might send you one that might not match the other you have... Tim: Technically, there is no effect (provided the corps commander is as good as the original army commander). Many guys play with house rules stating that promoted commanders drop their rating by one (or two) each time they move up the chain during a battle. The theory behind the house rule is excellent and I recommend it. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 191 Sat Jul 08, 1995 P.PERLA at 12:40 EDT Dean, I spoke to someone a couple of weeks ago about my Ops sub. There was some confusion. I think we sorted it out, but I have not received my latest issue. Would you check on if you get a chnace? I can pick my copy up at Origins if you have not mailed it yet. Thanks Peter ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 192 Sat Jul 08, 1995 R.DIETZ7 [DEEDS] at 19:54 EDT Is anybody going to Origins that plans to still be awake by Sunday? If so, would you be interested in playing something from the CWB series. (Sunday is the only day I can be there :-( ) Bob Dietz ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 194 Sun Jul 09, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:06 EDT Peter: I checked your sub just now and you are good through #24...all issues have been sent, so you should get it (actually, should have gotten it by now)...let me know if you haven't gotten it by the con and I'll see what I can do. We are leaving for Origins in the morning, so I'll be back on-line after I get back...see ya all there! Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 195 Sun Jul 09, 1995 P.CHIU4 [Samurai Cat] at 14:51 EDT Waahhh..I can't go!! ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 197 Tue Jul 11, 1995 P.LARKIN1 [Pat] at 17:24 EDT Dear Dean, I know you're off to Origins...lucky guy...so I'll wait patiently for your reply. Unfortunately, I haven't yet received my copy of Ops. I'm hoping it's just been caught in the Unamaniac mail snafu, and that I haven't foolishly let my subscription lapse. I'd appreciate it if you could check for me. Thanks, Pat ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 198 Tue Jul 11, 1995 W.ANDERSON38 at 18:25 EDT How does the new Tunisia game compare with the upcoming DAK? Since both are OCS games, I assume the scale will be similar. Will DAK be a superset of Tunisia (i.e. will the Tunisia game be encompassed within DAK)? Will DAK have scenerios that will be similar to Tunisia's? ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 199 Tue Jul 11, 1995 J.MALASKA [Elfego Baca] at 21:50 EDT Dean: Is there a special offer for Tunisia? JM ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 200 Thu Jul 13, 1995 W.ARNSDORF [MARTY] at 08:12 EDT I would like to know if anyone has tried Omaha with the knew 3.1 rules. I am currently playing, and have run into some areas that have caused problems. The most obvious problem (IMO) is the new overwatch rules. Using these rules along with the unlimited spotting on billiard table terrian (the beach) gives the German pillboxes a tremendous amount of firepower. A platoon moving up the beach to the shingle will be fired on several times by the machine guns with a +3 mod AND by the anti-tank guns with the same +3 mod. Only very poor die rolls will allow a platoon to make it to the shingle with less than 4 hits. The second and third waves have it slighly easier because the tide allows them to land closer to the shingle, but a smart German will save his arty to hit the troops behind the shingle, and to hit and American arty that has landed. I would welcome any comments by players who have tried Omaha with the 3.1 rules. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 201 Thu Jul 13, 1995 S.CLARKE8 [Scott] at 21:35 EDT Gamers - Black Wednesday looks fantastic. The game system sounds pretty interesting too (from my perspective not having played TCS yet), as soon as I can get to it (Tunisia in progress first). Not ASL maybe , but still looks like fun, and it may cause me to go pick up GD40 as well. I like the new look of the counters with the pictures instead of the old symbols - prob there are some who have a different opinion but I think this is a good move. Also the map is way neato. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 202 Thu Jul 13, 1995 R.RUBIN8 [Rich Rubin] at 23:03 EDT Stalingrad Pocket question: I know nobody's home at the moment, but I'll ask: 1. Are HQ's treated the same as other units when step losses are distributed? Example: an HQ is stacked with an intact 2-step infantry unit. This stack suffers a 2-step loss. Must the HQ be eliminated (due to distribution of step losses) or may the owner eliminate both steps from infantry? (special treatment for HQ's). ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 203 Sun Jul 16, 1995 B.BONNEVIER [AXEMAN] at 16:53 EDT Sorry I missed you guys at Origins - I wanted to give you a face to go with the comments about Stuarts. I could only stay for a few hours and didn't catch any names I recognized from this BB or Operations at your room or booth. Next time. I did pick up Tunisia and Black Wednesday - they look great. I've always been interested in the Spaniards since reading the Osprey book on them ... ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 204 Sun Jul 16, 1995 P.POMERANTZ1 [Phil] at 19:29 EDT Dean, I am back from the family trip to Israel (I was there for 3 months 25 years ago, and boy have thinngs changed). Great trip. Cooler there than in the states :) I am ready to take delivery on Tun/BW. Thanks Phil ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 205 Mon Jul 17, 1995 D.POWELL4 [Dave Powell] at 14:17 EDT Marty, Dean or I will try and answer the OMAHA question as soon as we can digest it, and recover from the ORIGINS trip. Admittedly, this game punched the system right from the start, and might need some tinkering for that problem. Omaha likely needs a final software upgrade to integrate it with 3.1, maybe I can do that at some point. (No promises, mind you, about timing... This damn swamp has alligators everywhere, and angry lynch mobs are forming over 7 Days stuff...) All, As Dean will certainly tell you - this was a great ORIGINS. The Game Room was a beehive of activity, and the aid of gamers like Perry Andrus, Vernon Robinson and his team (sorry, didn't get all his' guys' names) Boyd Schorzman, not to mention drop-in help with the likes of John Reed, et. al. really made this work. Financially, we damn near sold out - a very good thing. Dave Powell ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 206 Mon Jul 17, 1995 S.VASTA [Sal] at 23:00 EDT It was a pleasure meeting you gents at Origins. I would have loved to have spent more time with you, but I was playing in a tournament for 2/3 of the time I was there. Oh well, there's always email and the this topic. :) Sal ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 207 Mon Jul 17, 1995 P.ANDRUS [Perr Dog] at 23:59 EDT Marty, I would like to play in your Homercon Omaha game if there is room. I think you need a rule for all the smoke on that battlefield. This would limit the OW trigger distance to something reasonable. I think Samurai Cat's group tried Omaha but I am not sure what version of TCS was used. Dave is not lying about 7 days. It was brought up many times by "hungry" CWB fans (including me). Axeman, Did you go into the dedicated Gamers' room? If so, how could you have missed me? To all, Dean and Dave were in the booth much of the time. Even then, they stopped by the room many times during each day. I probably bugged Dean and Dave too much with questions but they were very helpful. Some of the answers were already in the rules but I had not had time to really study BW (mine was in Calif) or Tunisia (I bought it on Thursday). I was able to play the beginning of the Race to Tunis scenario twice, 2 BW scenarios, AH, YK and GD'42. I layed out the Leros maps and combined w/ GD'42 on Saturday, we got lots of questions. I was able to play BW against Ron Chacon (the TCS Marine from DC). He was able to stop the Soviets after they made it into the trench lines with some excellent arty fire. It was a very tense affair toward the end as my waves broke on his line (it was also much after midnight and he still had to drive back to DC). One of the best parts of playing was watching how others play the games. This was most beneficial for the solitare players who actually got a real opponent and a different look at the rules. It was great to meet many of the people behind the names on this topic. Can't wait for Homercon so I can get another TCS fix. Perry ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 208 Tue Jul 18, 1995 J.BEHAN1 [Jeff] at 00:23 EDT Gamer guys: It was great to finally meet you fellas! I had a nice chat with Owen Fuller a couple of times. I had to walk buy your booth all the time to get to the ZoC booth (how did you guys score a location like that!) and I was always noticing how your piles of games dwindled. I'm glad you guys had a great con. You deserve it for putting out all these awesome titles! Another Origins moment that won't soon be forgotten: About 15 minutes after arriving, I had a chance to meet both Richard Berg & Dean. All of a sudden, Richard starts to go into detail about how Dean can "fix" the OCS system. I'm sitting here thinking, "Is Richard serious?" (everone here on GEnie, of course, knows the answer). Dean has a very bored look at his face and seemed to be thinkng, "Yeah, whatever!" The discussion went on for several minutes, but you had to be there to truely appreciate it. Needless to say, I don't think Dean is starting to draw up version 3.0.... I hope my schedule works out for me attending HomerCon. Later, Jeff ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 209 Tue Jul 18, 1995 M.PITCAVAGE [Pitman] at 01:16 EDT I bought _Tunisia_ today. It looks interesting, but what happened to the title on the box top? ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 210 Tue Jul 18, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 12:02 EDT Pitman: Actually, I wonder the same thing (especially since the titles everywhere else don't have that odd shadow combination effect)... We had an outstanding con. Sales were off the chart (games started running out Thursday night...) and while the totals aren't tabulated yet, we moved something around 200 games at the show--95 of which in the first four hours (quite a scene!). I got another Dunnigan award for last year and Enemy at the Gates won best WW2 game. There might be nay sayers out there about awards, but those of us who worked so very hard really appreciate the pat on the back and recognition they give. The game room was hopping the whole time thanks to the efforts of Perry and Vernon Robinson. All in all the con was a heck of a shot in the arm especially so given the abysmal showings in the past couple of years. Mr Anderson (from msg 198): Tunisia just covers the campaign in Tunisia itself. While the scales are the same, DAK will beseparated from Tunisia by about half of Lybia and Tunsia starts after DAK will end. Mr Malaska (msg 199): The special offer mailing for Tunisia is out right now...let me know if you didn't get one. Rich Rubin (202): I would use a house rule that the HQ won't take any step losses until all the real units in the hex have died. Mr. Pomerantz (204): Willco... I'm still cacthing up on sleep from the show...but I must express my thanks to the many voluteers we had helping out and especially to the game playing public who made this con an event to remember for us. THANK YOU! Have Fun! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 211 Tue Jul 18, 1995 D.MANN8 [Doug Mann] at 19:40 EDT Dave, Just wanted to thank you, Dean, Perry, Vernon and Boyd S. (the "Tunisia" Tutor) for a great open gaming room at Origins. Even having Rusty kick my rear end at "TatC II" was enjoyable thanks to the company and comraderie. And I finally got the answer to a question that had been bugging me -- Boyd never DID get that Panzer unit from Dean's daughter from the cover of "Operations" No. 12! Guess I'll have to find a way to make it up to HomerCon this time. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 212 Tue Jul 18, 1995 C.PERLEBERG [Chris P.] at 20:12 EDT Speaking of Tunisia -- is it being shipped right now? Chris P. I want mine! ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 213 Tue Jul 18, 1995 A.MALY [Ano] at 21:53 EDT Dean, Thanks for the answers, despite the position you were in at the time. All: I'll be attending the retreat, and would like opponents for or to join a team on the following games: Tunisia (OCS newbie, but it oozes with playability) Yom Kippur Anything CWB (preferably the one mappers) Not too early to start planning. P.S. I generally play real fast, so time should not be a problem. Ano ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 214 Tue Jul 18, 1995 M.PITCAVAGE [Pitman] at 22:56 EDT Dean, the fact that the stuff wasn't there on the other appearances of the title was what made me notice it in the first place. It is kind of strange not seeing the germans in some shade of grey or feldgrau. :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 215 Wed Jul 19, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 09:41 EDT Pitman: Can't trust those Nazis, can you? Wait till someone sends the DAK to Southern Russian (the EatG connection option) and see how out of place they look in their khaki shorts :) (shiver, shiver...) Chris: Preorders went out some time ago...distrib copies went out a week or so before the con. HomerCon: I hope to see all there :) (Doug, it was nice meeting you, glad you had a good time.) Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 216 Wed Jul 19, 1995 D.CICERO [Dan Cicero] at 19:51 EDT Ano: I gotta agree: never too soon to start planning. I will be at HOMERCON again this year -- a hat trick for me -- and would like to set up some games. Since I've got BLACK WEDNESDAY and TUNISIA now, I'd like to give either one of them a shot. Warning: I'm a complete novice in the OCS and TCS. I'm not opposed to total immersion, however. That's how I learned the CWB! I'm also up for any SCS or CWB game. (I have them all.) Games of choice would be APRIL'S HARVEST, IN THEIR QUIET FIELDS II, EMBRACE AN ANGRY WIND, ARDENNES or YOM KIPPUR. Dan ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 217 Wed Jul 19, 1995 R.DIETZ7 [DEEDS] at 21:52 EDT Being one of the solitaire players that Perry was talking about at Origins, I've gotta say thanks, both to Perry for the game, and to the Gamers for having the room. (Not to mention creating the games in the first place.) It was great. Bob ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 219 Thu Jul 20, 1995 P.LARKIN1 [Pat] at 03:27 EDT Dean, To quiet the gnashing of our teeth over not being able to make Origins this year, my dad and I have opened fire with April's Harvest. The first few turns have been exciting...if distressing for the Rebels (that cunning swine Buell has stolen a march and arrived on the field at 7:00 a.m. -- thus completely altering history and possibly ensuring the sobriquet of "The Savior at Shiloh"). However, we do have one question: We usually play our CWB games with the Defensive Orders option. But we're not quite sure how this option works in tandem with the Union encampment rules. Do encamped Union troops flee after suffering two or more turns of attack? Or do they hold their ground until alerted and then have to meet the requirement for defensive orders? Hope we haven't simply missed something obvious in the rules! Thanks, Pat ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 220 Thu Jul 20, 1995 D.MANN8 [Doug Mann] at 08:34 EDT Perry, Count me in for the learning session on TCS. I have GD 40 and Hunters from the Sky, plus BW now. Doug ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 221 Thu Jul 20, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:01 EDT Perry, Where did you get that Battalion Morale thing (he says, hoping it wasn't something he said himself...)?? Bn Morale additions are made on the raw result even if the player cannot actually inflict it--4 steps inflicted on a 1 step unit _does_ add to Bn Morale. Actually, more than scatter, illum rounds need a wide fuzzy edge--so that the daylight illumination is over a tight area and a really wide brim around it would have some sort of partial illumination. I believew this would correct for the "precision placement" problem you are worried about in a more realistic fashion. Acuraccy in Illum missions is akin to accuracy in Nukes...close is good enough. I don't agree that all mode decisions should be done _before_ conducting any overruns--that is an additional time expending constraint which violates the way the rules were designed and written. I'll add Meade to the list...but he'll have a relatively low priority. No one has seen a British 3 inch mortar yet, so why are they supposed to be worried about it? (The Leros special rules will address the issue when it is actually needed.) Pat: The encamped units do not fail defensive orders...they must stay in place until released, at which time you can start using the defensive orders (as well as all the others) normally. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 222 Thu Jul 20, 1995 M.LOCHTEFEL1 at 22:37 EDT Dean I remember someone posting a message here weeks and weeks ago that he had figured out a way that the Russians could win EaTG in four turns. He said that he would show you guys how it was done at Origins. Just curious if that person showed up and shared his secrets? Mike L ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 224 Fri Jul 21, 1995 R.RUBIN8 [Rich Rubin] at 00:15 EDT 1st scenario somewhat unbalanced? Truly you're sandbagging a bit? Want the recruit to think he's a genius? Gosh, I just advanced my 4 crack batallions, and all those tanks, fired my nine mortar units a few times, and some artillery, and when the smoke cleared, that French reserve batallion had left the area? Perry, volunteering to play the French is akin to eating two of them burritos. The result is similar. You have restored my opinion of you to one of utter awe. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 225 Fri Jul 21, 1995 J.REED9 [jhreed] at 00:40 EDT Everybody is forgetting that after a Burrito as Big as Your Head follows the Indigestion as Large as Your Stomach. There are reasons the head is verboten after a burrito run. The highlight of the riotous collate from he** the June 17-18 weekend for me was Sara's singing (I know I was at the piano). This took me back to conservatory days when I got paid about as much as at Homer to accompany people. Normally the collates aren't quite as vociferous as that one but it is certainly something I will remember for a while. Anybody that can make a collate should. You will see why if you go. Dean - warn Sara that I'm looking into the Schubert - she'll know what I mean. Later - John Reed. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 226 Fri Jul 21, 1995 P.LARKIN1 [Pat] at 01:52 EDT Dean, Thanks for the info! Now, back to Hunters and April's Harvest...almost simultaneously! Pat ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 227 Fri Jul 21, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:14 EDT Mike L: Nope, no such individuals appeared at the con to make such claims. In an OCS game the magintude of EatG, such a statement would have to be based not on actually having won the game, but on getting the German player to throw in the towel _thinking_ he has lost. I've already gone halfway across the country to smoke some cocky SOBs who thought the Germans couldn't lose and that experience convinced me of the futility of taking these kinds of statements on their word--invariably, the "master plan" the guy is so proud of works against Joe down the street, but won't against someone who knows what he is doing. And has the guts to stick the course. Too bad he didn't show to argue his point... Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 228 Fri Jul 21, 1995 B.OLSON4 [Mark Olson] at 18:14 EDT Let me add my kudos to the flood... It was a pleasure to meet all of you guys; the Gamers' room made my weekend. Thanks to Perry for introducing me to a higher level of TCS play, and to GD '42 (playtest, playtest! Don't get excited yet). The only disappointment (I didn't even lose to Perry - he showed me how to squeeze out a draw) was that I waited too long to pick up some counter trays. Guess I'll just have order them by mail :-) Mark Olson PS: Also; thanks, Wig, for taking the time to produce a GD '40 map that can actually be photocopied! Perry gave me a copy...I will treasure it. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 229 Sat Jul 22, 1995 J.CAPARULA at 16:35 EDT Haven't checked in here in a while cos I've been distracted by other games (namely Command's TGWiE). I picked up Tunisia this week . . . it is my first exposure to OCS (I'm not an eastfront grognard) and I can't tell you how impressed I am with this system. I think it is a radical departure from the "just move and fight" approach that has characterized wargaming for so many years. With this game, you have limited resources (not just limited units) and can only do so much per turn. You have to actually (god forbid) PLAN your attacks in advance. What's more, exploitation and reaction is far more important than the "regular" combat, which is as it should be. It's not WHAT you do but HOW you do it, and how you follow up on it. Brilliant! Still not clear on some of the rules (spec. organic trucks), but I'm working on it. When will we see DAK? I plan on attending HomerCon, and will probably want to play CWB (though I might be ready for some head-to-head OCS by then). Don't worry about lodging, though . . . I'll be staying with my brother in Rossville, Il, about half-an- hour away. -JC ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 230 Sat Jul 22, 1995 P.ANDRUS [Perr Dog] at 17:42 EDT Rich, I like playing the French in that game (especially the 0900 scenario). I found that playing the French reservists as part of training does wonders. The GD can't lose the 1st scenario and they have all kinds of TCS toys to play with. IMHO, the GD is not crack because their morale is only 3. In GD'42 they become 2's, then they are crack. The para's in Hunters with morale of 1 are awesome. There are some awesome units in the Lehr recce in Omaha (15-6- 1), but I never got to use them. Finding a TCS opponent is not easy so I am always willing to play the French in order to get someone to try the system. That scenario is still the best intro scenario. Lots of units but it plays fast. Mark and John, Thanks for playing at Origins. I had a lot of fun and I got to play some of the games I wanted to play. John gave a lesson on close assualt in CWB that I will not forget. Mark was a willing tester for one of Wig's intro scenarios. We had fun figuring out how best to work the Soviet forces. If Mark goes to HomerCon - he can get counter trays from the warehouse. :) Wig sent me a clean copy of the GD'40 planning map and I will mail it to Dean next week. Wig also made one for me with 10 meter contour lines (LOS only) that really changes the top of the heights. Wig has added 10 m lines to the GD'41 and GD'42 maps. Hopefully the playtesters will like them. I sure do. Perry ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 231 Sat Jul 22, 1995 R.RUBIN8 [Rich Rubin] at 23:58 EDT Perry, The 0900 scenario? Why did I think you were referring to the crack of dawn thing... something from your previous posts? ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 232 Sun Jul 23, 1995 P.CHIU4 [Samurai Cat] at 04:44 EDT Quick question...okay maybe not so quick.... We are still playing Omaha and got to 1600 June 6th. The US 1st divisional Chem arty was not assigned to an OP sheet but is still on the seaward side of the beach. The 2nd Battalion of 18th Regt is advancing and is operating under an op sheet. It is running into stiff opposition and I want to call in mortar fire from divisional level for movement based overwatch fires. My spotters have clear line of sight to the target hexes, but since the Chem arty is not on the OP sheet, I figure my battalion cannot call in mortar fire for Overwatch etc. Can I use the divisional Chem mortar in movement based overwatch fires if a unit in another battalion spots an enemy moving but not on the Battalion OP sheet? Again, the Chem arty is on the seaward side of the beach. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 233 Sun Jul 23, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 09:30 EDT JC-DAK is on for summer 97 (in fact I started drawing the maps this weekend, albiet from compilation sheets I did almost a year ago...). S.Cat: Even though those guys are still on the beach (and not in need of op sheets themselves, they cannot support the 18th's guys until they _do_ get on their op sheet. In their position, they will have to self-spot (the Chem Mortars, that is). Have Fun! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 234 Sun Jul 23, 1995 P.CHIU4 [Samurai Cat] at 17:11 EDT Gracias. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 236 Tue Jul 25, 1995 P.PERLA at 20:28 EDT Dave Powell, If you will send me your snail mail address, I will send you a paper copy of the errata to Bloodiest Day. I think John gave you a copy, right? Did I e-mail you the earlier version? The paper copy is a bit cleaner. Peter ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 237 Tue Jul 25, 1995 P.PERLA at 20:49 EDT Dean, I have still not received the latest issue of OPS. There was some confusion about the status of my sub. Apparently my renewal was not entered in the computer. If you could check to see if the issue went out to me, I would appreciate it. ALso, please confirm that the computer files are up to date. I renewed for two years. I will probably be picking up a Tunisia in the next month or so. Maybe I will finally be able to PLAY an OCS game! Peter ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 238 Tue Jul 25, 1995 S.CLARKE8 [Scott] at 22:35 EDT Peter - I think with Tunisia you will actually be able to play a game pretty quickly (relative to its predecessors)! In fact the campaign game is even a viable undertaking due to swift play/fairly low amount of units. I have found it to be very accessible for those who haven't played much OCS (like myself). (I am looking forward to trying Bloodiest Day myself) ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 239 Wed Jul 26, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:06 EDT Peter: I just checked your sub and it is up to date, etc. (I told Shirley to drop another #17 in the mail to you). Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 240 Wed Jul 26, 1995 S.VASTA [Sal] at 22:04 EDT Dean, Speaking of subscriptions, could you please tell me how many years I signed up for while at Origins? I can't recall. Thanks, Sal ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 241 Wed Jul 26, 1995 R.RUBIN8 [Rich Rubin] at 22:40 EDT Perry, I first solo'ed 0900 using the original airtable overlooking the updated version (which has the number of sorties drastically reduced). If you wan't your German opponent to really have fun, I recommend it (as a less drastic alternative to enduring the 0400). Rich ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 243 Thu Jul 27, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 09:39 EDT Sal: Oh, don't you remember...you signed up for the three-lifetime special...the bill for $16,000 should be showing up on your card any day now... oh yes, the wife and kids really thank you for the summer home we bought with the money... Seriously, you got the three year deal. Perry: I answered that one, I'll do so again: The army artillery is independent, Grant does not issue orders to them as they do not need them. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 244 Thu Jul 27, 1995 S.BRITTON2 [Stu] at 19:31 EDT Dean, I was throwing brick-bats at The Gamers for the color scheme employed for counters and map in _April's Harvest_ (I still can't bring myself to play the thing -- aqua, teal, lavender and plum Yankees going after peach and orange Rebels on a carnival colored map. Shudder!). However, I just picked up (a bit belatedly) _Black Wednesday_ and want to praise you for the map in that one! Terrain elevations are plainly shown without the gaudiness of _April's Harvest_. It really is a pleasure to peruse. The counters are sharp too, although I still might prefer Nato symbology for the non-AFV units. I just wanted to give you credit this time around. I felt so uncomfortable criticizing The Gamers after all the wonderful products and customer support you've provided. Stu PS For future CWB games, puh-leeeze stay away from the _April's Harvest_ color scheme. Thanks! ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 245 Thu Jul 27, 1995 S.VASTA [Sal] at 21:43 EDT Dean, It's a good thing I read these messages, and not my wife. While your wife was enjoying the new home, mine would have hung me by my... uh, my uh... Well, it's too painful to think about. Thanks, Sal ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 246 Fri Jul 28, 1995 B.SCHWEITZE1 [Bruce] at 02:41 EDT How about some other victory conditions in Ardennes? Maybe combat losses lead to victory point losses. Bruce ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 247 Fri Jul 28, 1995 M.LOCHTEFEL1 at 14:58 EDT Dean, I was going to buy some of your counter trays at Origins, but I overheard one of the guys at the booth say that The Gamers were going to redo the trays so that the covers snapped into place. I noticed that the tray covers did not stay on well. I was wondering what you had to say about this. Otherwise, I liked the trays and will be ordering some as soon as the covers stay on. Mike L ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 248 Mon Jul 31, 1995 K.HARRIS17 [Kirk.H] at 00:07 EDT The Gamers room at Origin's was great. Mr. Robinson deserves much credit for his Austerlitz work. I owe him some appoligies for getting "stuck" in other tourneys that did not allow me to play at all on Saturday night/Sunday. I'll tell you. When you are in a CWB frame of mind like I am, the subtle differences with the Cavalry, skirmishing, lack of ZOCs and the Artillery, do not become apparent until you are getting your but kicked by getting hit by every conceivable angle by fire and charges. I must say one thing about how Line of Site is explained in the rules. Don't lose that diagram that you have in the 1st Edition NBS rules. I could not follow the algorithm without it. I can't wait to write those NBS boys. Seeing the diagram when I went home, I found out that I WAS RIGHT in a rules interpretation regarding line of sight. Thanks to all whom were there. Once some of this Origin's excitement dies down, I'll be posting the Thunder at the Crossroads progress report after the first day of fighting. For those just joining in, this is a double- blind game that 20 people have or will be participating in all over the country on GEnie and the Internet. Kirk ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 249 Mon Jul 31, 1995 P.ANDRUS [Perr Dog] at 01:16 EDT Dean, The nit-meister was looking over Tunisia this weekend and I have a few questions (surprise huh?) Are they any limits on the ports to which the Allies can send shipping? In other words, can they paradrop into an empty port on the Gulf of Sirte and then ship in supply or additional units? On the turn of the 8th Army arrival on map, do they get 6SP or 3SP plus the 3SP that show up in B62.07? The Rule 3.5a on page 5 says 6SP's while the Order of Arrival on page 21 says 3SP's. Now for something really minor, the OOB on page 16 is missing the 200th Inf Rgt of the 90.LE. Scott and I played the Race to Tunis scenario and I did a poor job as the Allies. My dice did not help and I failed to take any of the VP points. Are there any tips for Allied players on how to do better in this one? Thanks, Perry ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 250 Mon Jul 31, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:46 EDT Stu: Thank you. Sal: We close tommarrow...nana-nuh-nana :) Bruce: Why? IAll the times I played Ardennes the victory conditions worked just fine..what happened in your games? Mike L: I was disappointed in the snapping of those trays...for some reason the concept of "snap" is beyond the ability of American engineers...the prototypes they provided were fine and snapped well. The initial shipment showed up botched...they are currently trying to get it right (its been two months and they still haven't gotten it figured out...). The new trays _better_ show up before Marengo...and they damn well better snap shut (it was one of the _primary_ requirements of the bloody things in the first place). We can put a man on the moon, but can't make a simple plastic tray snap shut (as you can tell, this bugs me quite a bit...especially with so much money invested...) Kirk H:\ Gald you had A good time...actually, the LOS stuff was different in the v2.0 rules you were (should have been?) using at the con...the algorithm is gone. Perry: Own the port at the beginning of the turn and you can use it...including last turn's parachute raid :) You get 6 SPs---the three that show up with the army plus the three for the turn...only the extras are listed in the order of arrival. Play tip for Race to Tunis: Stay concentrated...don't let forces get diverted further south. I prefer to keep my left flank firmly on the coast and drive along the roads in the far north--ultimate objective is Bizerte, but it allows the capture of a couple of the other minor ones along the way (esp Mateur). Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 251 Mon Jul 31, 1995 J.CAPARULA at 19:14 EDT I've been playing the same scenario pretty much with Dean's strategy. It seems to be working, though I've been blowing the weather rolls and there's been very little airpower (can't WAIT to use those P-38s!!) The Germans have had virtually no supply problems (mainly cos they aren't really going anywhere), while the Allies have had to forego combet for a few turns to get restocked. Godalmighty, this is a great game! -JC ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 252 Mon Jul 31, 1995 S.OZCOMERT [Shyster] at 20:45 EDT I have a rules question for the Ardennes game. I was recently playing my first campaign game of this as the allies. The evil germans had surrounded a unit that I had "sacrificed" to go kill his supply thingy. My surrounded unit was in the path of his supply trace during his supply determination phase (he had failed to kill it;). He traced around my unit but stated that he did not believe that he had to add the +2 per hex for going thru my unit's ZOC as the presence of his units allowed him to "negate" the ZOC. I have no idea what the rule is and was hopeful that you all could help! I am guessing that you DO add the ZOC as any mech unit moving thru the hex would have to pay it, but I figgered I could get the "skinny" here. On a related and somewhat sillier front, when overrunning a unit, the rules state that you have to pay the cost of the hex you are attempting to enter ignoring the ZOC effects/costs. Does that mean ignore the ZOC effects for the unit you are attacking only or any and all ZOC effects (i.e. adjacent units to the unit being overrrun)? Thanx in advance for your help! -Shyster ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 253 Tue Aug 01, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 12:51 EDT JC: Got get 'em... Shyster: The only negation effect for friendly units wrt ezocs has to do with supply trace and that negation both alolows the lows the trace in the first place and deletes the +2 cost...your buddy isn't sticking it to you on that one, but its a good idea to keep an eye on him :) On the second issue, pay all ezoc costs to get adjacent to the target hex (just like you would in normal movement) and do the ovc errun paying for the attack __but __ ignoring _all_ ezoc effects in the target hex. Hope that helps, Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 254 Wed Aug 02, 1995 S.OZCOMERT [Shyster] at 00:11 EDT Dean-- Thx for the prompt explanations. We played both as you indicated, but I figgered it would be good to know for sure. We are on the second half of turn five--sure can't wait for turn seven;). I still hold Bastogne and St. Vith but there is this little problem with most of the terrain in between.... -Shyster ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 255 Wed Aug 02, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 14:00 EDT Shyster: ROFL--that is the correct way to look at German units...extra terrain! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 256 Wed Aug 02, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 19:47 EDT Dean, Even though I have no time for it, I picked up a copy of TUNISIA and I was impressed. I really like the maps. A couple of points: (1) The most important information in the game is that "Point of Interest hexes (villages and Birs too small to rate being called villages) are Detrainable hexes". I did catch this on the first read-through, but I have friends (more experienced than I with OCS) who did not and it really changes the game. Also, the fact that rail hexes cannot be damaged is quite significant. (2) Another rule easily missed are the variable reinforcements. It took me quite awhile to figure out where the heck it was (on Map A). I looked through the Charts and Tables and could not find it and it was only through a systematic process of elimimation that I did. Other than the above, the game seems to play great. For once, one has a game in which all the essential components are pleasing to the eye and greatly enhance the game feel. I finally have enough Fuel and Reserve Markers (each side has its own so no more fighting like GUDERIAN'S BLITZKRIEG over who gets how many). Did you guys ever come up with a recommendation for numbers per side for GB. I have not played EATG so I do not know about its counter mix (although, as much as I am enjoying TUNISIA, I may have to tackle it since OCS v.2.0i should be able to be retrofitted back to both GB and EATGs. (At least that is what I thought the Christmas pack did - and thank you again for that lovely present.) One rules question, I have interpreted the Allied reinforcement rule - TUNISIA 3.2 to mean that the Allies can bring all reinforcements except variable ones on in Entry Area A. This means that Allied shipping can take the job move moving the supplies forward. I also interpret the reinforcement rules to mean that the only way Supply Points (SPs) can get from the Algiers Holding box is either (1) by Shipping by sea or (2) by rail to A1.15 although I recognize that trucks do arrive with supplies under the rules. Is this correct? SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 257 Wed Aug 02, 1995 J.CAPARULA at 20:43 EDT I, too, was a little foggy on the Allied reinforcement schedule. I was deploying ALL of them in Algiers for the first few turns before I realized they could come in on the west side of the map. As far as getting supplies from Algiers, you can also use air transport. The way I understand it, they can make two round trips to Bone and make two separate drops. Is this right? - JC ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 258 Wed Aug 02, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 21:25 EDT Another question: Regarding TUNISIA Rule 1.10 - French Charcoal Trucks. These units are labeled trucks but have only 10 movement points. Do they load/unload for a cost of 5 MPs (like trucks) or is it instead 2 MPs (like wagons which also only have 10 MPs). I assumed it was 2 but would appreciate your confirmation that this is correct. SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 259 Wed Aug 02, 1995 B.SCHWEITZE1 [Bruce] at 23:40 EDT Dean, re the victory conditions for Ardennes, I've only played it twice but it seems the Germans dig in at extended cities knowing they will die, but hoping the game will end before so they will get victory points for the city. Bruce ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 260 Thu Aug 03, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 09:12 EDT Sogard & JC: The Reserve limits (and all that) for GB were in the upgrade kit (couple of pages plus counters) we sent out last Christmas. (I think you got 'em based on your post) Allied reinf. can enter at Algiers OR entry area A...you are correct about SP shipping SPs. You can make two round trips for air transport (who designed those C-47 fuel tanks anyway...what-a-range!!!)...but not to make actual air drops. If you are air land -ing at an air base you can make the two trips...dumping the stuff out the back, you can only make one. Yes, the charcoal trucks load and unload at 2 MPs, not 5...(this item is the only known official errata so far). Bruce: That's what we did in playtesting too...dig in on those VP cities and prey for the end of the game (when going for points). At that point the US objective is to pry the right cities from German hands before the music stops. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 261 Thu Aug 03, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 20:08 EDT I have another question, this time regarding the OCS v.2.0i Rules. Rule 15.1 Building Air Bases: "To build or improve an air base, a Combat Mode Engineer capable unit must occupy the hex and the owning player must expend 2T. My question is: Does this mean that the Combat Mode Engineer capable unit must start the move in the hex where construction is going to take place and must it start in combat mode? In other words, can an engineer unit move to a hex and construct and/or may it start in a hex but in move mode and merely change mode and construct? Thanks. SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 262 Fri Aug 04, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 09:20 EDT Sogard: The engineer (or like facsimilie) must begin the phase in the hex in the proper mode. Hope that helps, Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 263 Fri Aug 04, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 13:41 EDT Dean - Thanks for the ruling on Engineer capable units. The reason that I was unsure is that in the OCS rules, most other specific capabilities and construction is very specific about what has to be where, when and in what mode. The airbase construction rules though are much more open ended just requiring the engineer to be in the hex. I will interprete the rules in a more restrictive fashion as you suggest - I think I agree with the design philosophy that makes it more restrictive. It is a bummer to have the engineer unit have to sit an entire turn so that it starts in combat mode and can then construct - but maybe laying those runways is not such an easy job. SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 264 Sat Aug 05, 1995 B.MARRS [Brian] at 11:24 EDT Dean, Do you still provide the service where for $1 or $2 you'll send a listing of gamers in a given state? Just moved to the Dallas area and don't have any gaming contacts, so I thought your listing might be a good place to start. ...Brian ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 265 Sun Aug 06, 1995 J.BODINE3 [Badger] at 00:40 EDT re: TCS Air System I've been delving into close ground support. My basic feeling is that the player has too much control over ground support. My biggest objections are that attacks come in too close to friendly units, and that the penalties for spotting stationary units under cover are too small. I was able to collar "Gabby" Gabreski and another pilot of the 56th Fighter Group at the Oshkosh air show last weekend. They weren't too much help, as the 56th was 8th AF, not 9th, and most of their ground attack vectors involved air strips. On occasion, though, they "escorted" columns of armor down roads. From what they told me, neither they nor their compatriots ever intervened in a firefight, when both sides on the ground were in sight of each other and firing. When the friendlies were fired on, they went to ground first and then called the air support (usually after marking the target in some way). This was confirmed by my own father. He flew F51's (P51) in Korea in close ground support (after piloting B24's over Germany in WWII - go figure). Even with the undoubtedly superior fire control in Korea, they never intervened in active firefights. I'm still trying to dredge up references on methods used by different countries ("Strike From the Sky" doesn't quite do it). What I think will work is the following: Divide up the turn's airplanes into two groups. The first group is to be used during your phase. Air units may be targetted on enemy units in the open, or unique geographical area (towns, etc.). Make the requisite spotting rolls. During the enemy turn, roll a spotting roll if you want for enemy units which make an SFA or move. If the unit is spotted, blow it up. If not, the airplane leaves the pool. No air attacks on enemy units adjacent to friendly ones. This is just rudimentary, and I do not have the references yet I think are necessary to allow for national differences. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 266 Sun Aug 06, 1995 S.OZCOMERT [Shyster] at 03:13 EDT Dean: Now for something completely different...I just looked at an old game of mine--"Hitler's Last Gamble". I noted with surprise that the map was done by....YOU??!!;) Do you like the game? I also hear tell that you all are planning a more detailed study of Ardennes for next year. Are details available or am I asking too soon (or just plain misinformed)? Curiously yours, -Shyster ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 268 Mon Aug 07, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 05:09 EDT Dean: Another good gaming session with TUNISIA but have a question: The Dump, Truck and Wagon Capture Table says with regard to Truck capture - "Remainder displaces up to 10 hexes" - does this displacement require any line of retreat or are the trucks teleported anywhere they want within 10 hexes and can you displace over prohibited terrain? SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 269 Mon Aug 07, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:56 EDT Brian: Yes we still have that service...$1 gets you the released names in three states. Badger: Interesting stuff (wish I could have met Gabby...) I'm reading Strike from the Sky right now (very slowly, I started it in April...) It's ok, but I can sense that it glosses over quite a bit. Let me know what your reading turns up and what books you find that are good about close air support. Shyster: Yes, I did that map (while suffering from the flu as I recall). Never played the game, so I don't have much of an opinion on how it is--looked too detail heavy for me, though. I'm not sure where you heard we were working on a detailed Ardennes, (especially not one for next year)...we had an OCS Ardennes submitted to us from a guy in Sweden, but I have no idea when (or if) that will come out. Perry: Airstrikes on adjacent hexes at the TCS scale are probably wrong...that is just too close for that heavy of a munition (with air strikes, something hitting four hexes away is probably considered--by the guys on the ground--As "right on top of our positions". Those scenario starts are correct, here is why... Both scenarios start at the moment the Americans are launching a reduction operation against Sidi bou Zid (I think the Brits might be doing something too, but I forget what its purpose was...) in the campaign scenario there is time to get that operation out of the way as part of all that is going on, and there is time to deal with the American who "turns turtle". In the smaller scenario, there isn't time to deal with a turtle...and no American is going to do the operation they actually were going to do (this is what you seem to have done). And that is why they are different... Your attacker must retreat away from the target. Sogard: They teleport out...actually, displacement equals "not there" NOT "moved away". Terrain and enemy units do not matter. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 270 Mon Aug 07, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 14:00 EDT DEAN: Thanks for the "displacement" ruling definition - I had not thought of the plain old simple "not there" idea and it works great in theory now that I understand it. 1. We had one further interesting event happen in a game this weekend. We had a turn where the weather was "No Flight". There was an active FTR at an airbase that was overrun - yes the air unit was active even though the weather was "No Flight". The question is: what happens to the FTR at the now enemy occupied airbase. The options seemed to be that it was 1) destroyed; 2) the FTR remains in the hex since it is operational and must return to a base like normal either in the Weather Determination Segment (if the weather is "No Flight" or "Mud") or as normal in the Air Unit Return Phase; and 3) since the weather is "No Flight", once the enemy occupies the airbase that the FTR is active over; the active FTR must immediately return to a supplied airbase. What is right? 2. I assume that inactive air units on an airbase are destroyed if that airbase is captured/occupied by the enemy since they can not rebase to a friendly base if they are inactive - correct? 3. In interpreting the Air-to-Air Combat rules (14.9), it says: 14.9c: Neither player can voluntarily end air to air combat once initiated. Either player can voluntarily abort AFTER finishing an air-air combat. What do you mean by "AFTER finishing an air-air combat"? Can a player abort from air-to-air combat after any "round" - ie. in a big "Put Up or Shut Up" battle where both sides have 4 FTRs involved - after one round of combat - can either side then voluntarily abort returning their planes to a friendly base or must the air-to-air combat always continue until just one side has no FTRs left when the side without FTRs must abort (per 14.11)? Thanks for your help. SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 271 Mon Aug 07, 1995 D.POWELL4 [Dave Powell] at 22:02 EDT RE: Hitler's Last Gamble. I did play it, and found that while it had some good ideas, execution tended to be flawed. For instance, Armor values add a DRM to combat - and each tank type is rated, with about 10 different categories. However, each catagory is assigned at random, so that the Stuart might be 8, while the Tiger is a 3. This was counter-intuitive - instead of just assuming the higher value was better, you had to look them up each time - and there were too many to memorize. I found the game full of annoying little time-killers like that, that made me walk away from it after one or two evenings. Also, while it made some nod to reserve and exploit rules, the mechanics of traffic and stacking made them almost irrelevent. Reserves could never get to the battle. I found that overstated. Dave Powell ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 272 Mon Aug 07, 1995 S.OZCOMERT [Shyster] at 23:45 EDT Dean: Sorry about the confusion regarding the Ardennes. That's what I get for listening to Bill Pilon;) He said he thought he had heard about the OCS version of Ardennes somewhere... -Shyster ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 273 Tue Aug 08, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 09:22 EDT Sogard: 1) As per the next to last sentance in 9.15f, those air units are toast...active or otherwise. 2) Very dead, that is... 3) The winning side has the ability to abort after all rounds have been fought and the dust settles. NOT after each round, etc. Shyster: No problem... Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 274 Tue Aug 08, 1995 L.PRATT [LRP] at 18:32 EDT Any decision yet on what the OCS game for 96 will be? ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 275 Tue Aug 08, 1995 D.POWELL4 [Dave Powell] at 21:00 EDT Early rumors say Hube's Pocket - Ukraine, Feb of '44. We're still awaiting receipt of Sicily, so we can put that on the schedule. Dave Powell ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 276 Tue Aug 08, 1995 J.BODINE3 [Badger] at 22:38 EDT re: TCS Air Support I went back over D.Parker's "To Win the Winter Sky" and "B of the Bulge" books and couldn't find anything that implied aircraft intervening in close firefights. I would like to add something to the "SFA" use of aircraft, regarding the targeting geographical points: If the area is multi-hex, such as a town or a forest, ideally the hex hit should be random. Perhaps there should be no spotting roll. The book I'm looking for right now is on the IX Air Force. Anybody know of a basic reference? I suppose I'll have to dust off (groan) Rudel's "Stuka Pilot". ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 277 Wed Aug 09, 1995 L.PRATT [LRP] at 18:56 EDT Dave, thanks for the update! ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 278 Thu Aug 10, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 16:12 EDT Can someone give me the exact scale for each of the three OCS games. I know the current Series Rules (v.2.0i) states that the ground scale is from 2.5 to 5 miles per hex but I am curious as to the exact scale for each game: 1. Guderian's Blitzkrieg 2. Enemy At The Gates 3. Tunisia Hope that Dean or someone can supply the above. SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 279 Thu Aug 10, 1995 D.POWELL4 [Dave Powell] at 17:59 EDT Sogard, Actually, all three games weigh in at 5 miles to the hex. The 2.5 scale is included to accomodate projected western front projects, which ideally will allow a greater level of resolution. As of yet, however, none of those projects are anywhere near seeing the light of day. Dave Powell ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 280 Fri Aug 11, 1995 K.HARRIS17 [Kirk.H] at 01:24 EDT Below is the analysis of the first day of fighting in the 20 person double- blind TATC 2 game. All information below is available to all players in hindsight - finding out some stuff from prisoners. It does not include information about enemy units not seen by any friendly forces. It has been a great game thus far. Very Competitive will excitement and frustration abound for all sides: __________________________________________________________________________ At about 0900 on July 1 lead units of Henry Heth's Division encountered dismounted regiments of John Buford just northwest of McPherson's Woods. Led by superior artillery work, the Confederates were able to push back and badly disorganize the Union Cavalry. Fortunately for the Yankees, Federal 1st Corps was able to stop the advance west of Seminary Ridge and badly bloodied Heth in the process. However quick marching by Rodes division, directly commanded by General Richard Ewell, created an immediate threat to Gettysburg and the Union rear via the Carlisle Road. Buford's division was still disorganized. Acting Union Army Commander John Reynolds, conducted a risky but successful maneuver. With Oliver Howard's 11th Corps arriving on the scene, he instructed 11th Corps to block the western approaches to town, while he redeployed 1st Corps commanded by Abner Doubleday to block the northern approaches to town. The Federals looked in good shape, but the Confederates kept receiving reinforcements at a very high pace. The Rebels hampered by no cavalry reconnaissance, had little idea of the concentration of the Federal Forces had inflexible orders while General Lee was not on the field and were limited in any flanking movements. Within the confines of the orders, General A.P. Hill arrived on the with Thomas Pender's and flanked Howard's 11th Corps. While Howard quickly recovered, continued devastating Rebel artillery broke the green German troops spirits. 1st Division Commander General Barlow was wounded and the entire 11th Corps was in retreat by 1130! Meanwhile, Rodes and Doubleday were slugging it out and playing chess. Doubleday flanked Rodes on the west flank, then was trapped as Cutler's Brigade was lost. Rodes was also able to take the hill east of Steven's Institute. But Rodes was taking horrendous casualties while except for 2nd division and Cutler, 1st Corps was minimizing theirs. But 1st Corps was having trouble in command and control also as significant leaders was carried from the field wounded. First General Wadsworth, then General Doubleday were hit by Confederate snipers. General Robinson took control of 1st Corps - fortunately for the Federals General Reynolds stayed away from the front watching the battle unfold from Cemetery Hill. He could not be happy. 11th Corps seemed to have lost the will to fight and was in flight. Hill's Corps was absolutely relentless and his artillery unconscious in its accuracy. 1st Corps had done some excellent fighting, but was devoid of middle command structure and had to fall back to maintain flank-to-flank contact with the retreating Federal Left. And the Rebels kept coming. As 1300 rolled by, Early's Division could be seen coming down the Harrisburg Road. The Federals were outnumbered 2-1. Then the tide was thwarted. General Gordan Meade, who was not on the field yet, made a fateful decision to require General Henry Slocum's 12th Corps to make the battlefield by 1230. Reynolds positioned him east of Gettysburg, right where Early thought he would have an opening. In an interesting "skirmish", the lead brigade of Hays was decimated. Slocum extended to Benner's Hill and flanked Hays. Early was forced to back off as he was unsupported by a very tired and bloodied Rodes. Except for Hays, both Early and Slocum had very light casualties. Then to cover for a shaky situation on the left, Reynolds had both 1st and 12th Corps fall back to Cemetery and Culp's Hills. Both Corps began to dig in. Meanwhile, Howard's Corps set up a second line of defense along the Sunken Road. Again, Hill was not able to implement any other orders except to bombard and frontal assault. The Germans were this time up to the task - despite continued Confederate artillery superiority. A combined assault by Penders and Heth supported by the entire Corps artillery was thrown back. Howard's Corps literally fought to the last man - only 2 brigades and 1 battery made it out of the Sunken Road intact. Hill did capture the Sunken Road. Anderson's Division had joined his Corps but not been committed, but Howard's heroics had allowed 1st Corps to create quite an impressive line of breastworks on Cemetery Hill. The Yankee's still significantly outnumbered - only 1 brigade of 1st Corps and 1 division of 3rd Corps was to make it to the line before dark, prepared for an assault. The Rebels were ready to comply, but General Ewell just simply lost all composure. Thinking that the Federal 12th Corps was about to flank him from Benner's Hill, he ordered a withdrawal of all of the Confederate 2nd Corps from Gettysburg. Now it was General Lee whom could not be happy. With Lee not wanting to commit Hill's Corps unsupported, the Rebels watched the Federals dig in and receive reinforcements that extended their line from Cemetery Hill to Spangler's Woods. This move forced Hill to back off from the Sunken Road to Seminary Ridge. The Federals did not advance back into Gettysburg - probably assuming that this was a master trap rather than a loss of command and control. As the day ended, the lone cavalry brigade on the field, Colonel Jenkins circled to Union right and captured the Baltimore Pike Bridge from the beatup stragglers of poor 11th Corps - whom Jenkins actually outnumbered. Ewell regained his composure, retook Gettysburg without opposition with Rodes and the newly arrived Johnson Division and sent General Early to east of Benner's Hill to probe the Union right. General Slocum reacted quickly and cut off what was a dash by Early to help Jenkin's capture the entire west bank of Rock Creek - a move that could have forced the Federals to abandon Cemetery and Culp's Hills. Unsupported and being surrounded, Jenkin's retreated back across the bridge somewhere along the Baltimore Pike. Early is on the slopes of Wolf Hill. Johnson is untested and occupies the space between Benner's Hill and Gettysburg. Both Anderson's Division of the Confederates and Buford's Division of the Yankees occupy unknown positions to the enemy - as do any other forces that may have come up during the extreme late afternoon or in the evening. Both sides commanders begin to gather to determine the strategy on the second day. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 281 Fri Aug 11, 1995 M.PITTS4 at 03:25 EDT I'm looking for TCS players in the Atlanta area. I'm trying to learn the system, and I'd like to game with some experienced players. I have Hunters from the Sky and GD'40. Please e-mail me if interested. Michael P. ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 282 Fri Aug 11, 1995 E.CAYLOR [Drifter] at 18:34 EDT What a wonderful report on day one of Gettysburg. It must be a blast playing this. I would love to be there trying to come up with day two strategy, but not sure of the other side's intentions or true positions...kinda like it really was. I had a chance in 1981 to walk the battlefield with my best friend, on July 2 and 3 and it was 95 degrees plus both days. That brought a great appreciation for what it must have been like to have been carrying ammo, rifles, bedrolls, etc. and to have been exhausted, frightened, and still trying to have carried on. Thanks again for the long after-action report...I can't wait to read what happens on the critical day 2. Isn't The Gamers version of this battle the absolute best. Ed Caylor (Drifter) ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 283 Sat Aug 12, 1995 P.PERLA at 20:25 EDT Kirk, Great summary. But I haven't received mush of that through "officila channels." In fact, I have not heard anything about the game for a while. What's up? Peter ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 284 Sun Aug 13, 1995 W.ARNSDORF [MARTY] at 18:34 EDT A question on Tunisia. Rule 3.5a states that the 8th Army gets 6SP's on the turn of entry in addition to that loaded on the organic trucks. The allied order of arrival lists 3SP's. Which is it? Those 3 SP's can make a big difference. Marty ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 285 Sun Aug 13, 1995 R.EICHENLAUB [Dick] at 19:13 EDT I just got Tunisia and have a couple comments. 1. It looks great. I'm really pleased to see the system move out of Russia (I have GB and EatG). Nothing against Russian games, I was just interested in seeing the series on a different theatre. 2. I like the Terms and Abbreviations section. Sort of like a badly needed index. It's easier to find a reference and get to the pertinant rules section. 3. I noticed a couple of minor things in the Charts and Tables (call me picky...) The Surprise Modifier table on page 3 has a Modifier ("Add 1 to the defender's Action Rating if...Hedgehog of any level."). But the "Standard Action Die Roll Modifier" notes to subtract the hedgehog level, if any. It appears the former is correct (it is the only one mentioned in the rules). Is that right? Secondly, the Supply Affects chart is in there twice (Pages 3 and 4). No real issue with that, other than it seeming to be unnecessary and possibly the space could be used for something else. Also, it looks like the scenarios are really good in this one. I'm looking forward to setting it up (as soon as a hole opens on my gaming table). -Dick- ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 287 Mon Aug 14, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 16:21 EDT Thanks to all who have stood in for me in the past few days...between moving and the ever-burdemsome work schedule my ability to check in here will be erratic for a couple of weeks. Thank you for your understanding. Keep going Dave & Perry, your answers are right on target. Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 288 Mon Aug 14, 1995 J.CAPARULA at 21:14 EDT Dean- Are YOU moving or is the company moving? Will it still be there when I show up for Homercon next month? -JC ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 289 Tue Aug 15, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 01:18 EDT I have a question and then an observation about TUNISIA. First the question: when a truck or mechanized unit enters a mountain hex via a road - may it then move into an adjacent hex across a hexside that does not contain a road (or railroad)? You have the situation, if this is permissable, where one could exit from a mountain hex into an open hex but one could not do the reverse - move from the open hex into the mountain. I think the Rule 6.2 Terrain Effects on Movement prohibits this: 6.2a: Primary & secondary roads and railroads can only be used if the moving unit is following a continuous path along the feature to enter a given hex. Aunit may then pay the road/railroad movement cost and ignore other features in the hex or hexside crossed. 6.2b: Add the cost of any hexside feature crossed to that of the hex entered. Units moving along roads or railroads IGNORE hexside features. BRIDGES AND PONTOONS fully negate river hexside costs. 6.2c: Ground units cannot enter or cross prohibitive hexes or hexsides. Destroy units forced to do so. Could you please verify that my interpretation of 6.2a prohibiting moving from a mountain to an open hex by truck and mech without a road (when the only way they can get into the mountain hex in the first place is via a road/railroad) is correct? I had another bout of TUNISIA this weekend and the interplay in December and January between MUD and the initiative is fascinating. I was playing the Allies and it seemed everytime that I was in position to smash back at my Axis opponent - the weather would turn to MUD. My planes would be kaput, my opponent would have his DG markers removed, more Axis supply arrived and then to top it all off - in the first player determination die rolls - the Axis would win and take the First Player position for the turn. Since my Fighters had to land with the foul weather, the Axis would now hip shoot his way in a totally unrestricted fashion. The Axis would then bash my units again until the next bout of MUD hit just as the Allies were preparing their counter-attack. It is quite a interesting situation and is so variable that no game will every play the same way providing endless variations on a similar theme. The more I play, the more I like TUNISIA. It is also one of the most balanced games that I have encountered in some time. Both sides get to attack and both must muster the cooks and clerks to hold positions. Nice work guys. SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 290 Tue Aug 15, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 10:41 EDT JC: The company is staying put...my brood and I are moving across town to a place big enough for the five of us... Sogard: According to the rules as they are right now, the montain off-load is legal... _however_ I just wrote a little rule (for OPS 18) that will apply to all our games such that a unit can only move from hex A to hex B if (and only if) it could also move move from hex B to hex A. In other words, a move is only valid if the moving unit could also conduct the inverse move. (I'd follow the new rule...now that you know what it is :) Are you playing with the Initiative modifier stuff? If you get your fighters stationed fairly close to the front on Level 2 bases you can void out at least some of the free hits the Axis is getting in on you. The good news is any player who chooses to go first is setting the enemy up for a double move -- that is when you can get your payback. (Personally, I almost never choose to go first...) Are you going to be able to make it to the retreat? Have fun! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 291 Tue Aug 15, 1995 D.HEINZ1 [Fritz] at 19:54 EDT Dean, Another quick GB question: what are the "open lines" in the scenario 8 set up? Can't seem to find the meaning of the term in either rulebook. We are using 2.0i rules and the update. Are these breaks in the line? Thanks, Fritz ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 293 Wed Aug 16, 1995 THE-GAMERS at 16:37 EDT Fritz: The "open lines" are the usuable railroads for the Germans. Perry: I think John Reed (et al) are planning on having an Omaha game...things look like there will be space available...the crowd might be pretty big this year (based on number of requests for info)...looks like it'll be a great one. A good chunk of my personal game collection will be up for sale at the retreat...so bring your checkbooks (and wifely permission...) Enjoy! Dean ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 294 Wed Aug 16, 1995 J.CAPARULA at 20:51 EDT Dean- Could you tempt my collector tastebuds a little with what might be available? Remember, the more obscure the better . . . -JC ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 295 Wed Aug 16, 1995 K.HARRIS17 [Kirk.H] at 22:31 EDT Yankees in the BRS Double Blind game have not heard from me in a while. But the game is still moving. I'm facilitating the Rebels Council for the moment. Soon it will be the Yankees turn. Kirk P.S. The known positions of the enemy's is shockingly similar to the real battle!! ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 296 Thu Aug 17, 1995 O.SOGARD [SOGARD] at 04:21 EDT Dean: After so much fun with two Panzer Divisions in TUNISIA - I just could not resist the dozen in GUDERIAN'S BLITZKRIEG. Can you give me some advice in the following situation. Assuming the Germans let the Soviets be the first player on Turn 1 (I am using the version 2.0i rules with the scenario you so kindly provided in the Christmas package), what should the Soviets do with their move just prior to the impending German double move. It seems to me that if the Soviets have formed a relatively coherent line in their setup - they should dig in - burn some supply - and hedgehog to beat the band along the front line. Since most units are so slow, attempting to move in any large way, is doomed to failure. The Soviet FTRs can be deployed to give some relief from German hip shoots except that if the Soviet has to take into account the possibility that most of his close up air bases are within a panzer strike's grasp - it is likely that there are not going to be too many Soviet FTRs up close and personal where it counts. Anyway, given the v.2.0i changes - what is your advice STALIN as to what to do if he finds himself with the first move on turn one. SOGARD ------------ Category 4, Topic 43 Message 297 Thu Aug 17, 1995 D.POWELL4 [Dave Powell] at 21:35 EDT Sogard, While I'm sure Dean will want to chime in, I thought I'd get my opinion down: The Sovs will wanna Hog up just as you suggest. Also, however, get some of those mobile units on the road back to the Defensive lines. Certainly at least some of those mobile divisions (the semi-mot 12-3- 3 types) and some tanks should be able to fall back. Form roadblocks where possible, but remember that any single unit is still pretty vulnerable, so that blocks won't be tremendously effective. Finally, if you can get a little more supply into the soon-to-be pockets (Bryansk, for instance) it will help them hold out a long time, and become very annoying to the Germans. Dave Powell ------------