From: Wanax Subject: Cold Wars...a limited perspective Hello everyone, I had a limited perspective on CW overall. I was trapped in the tennis barn the entire weekend. I found some great deals on lead. Minifig now packages figs in corp packs like Old Glory with two differences: 1 good one is that the minifig pack comes with approx 72 line, 28 flank Co., 16 command stuff (drummers, etc) and a mounted officer. 1 bad one is that the line figs all have the same pose. It still works out to more figs for $20 than OG, and the new casting quality is very very high. I ended up buying the entire British army in 15mm :) I saw the moom-bean (whatever) game in the tennis barn. It took up about 4' square. Bizarre game, promo, with fleamarket tables, so I can't complain about the historical nature. My feel is that the dealers were making a killing overall. Friday night I played in a large Shako pickup game. Austrians corp and Russian corp attempted to cut off a French army from hooking up with Napoleon. The French grabbed and held the river crossing town against the Austrian 2 division attack, while 3 foot and 1 cav divisions and a brigade of Old Guard smashed the poorly deployed Russian corp of 2 foot and 1 mounted division. French won big. We had an LOG player, and Empire player 2 shako vets of a few games, and 3 NB players. Some whinned about not likeing the rules before we played, but all said they would have to try again. In any event, we all had a blast. Watched a little of the V to Waterloo tournament and was not spellbound. However, I don't want to pass judgement. Played circus maximus with my 2 boys and a host of other kids (I was the only adult). I was the only guy smart enough to take the turn on the inside at 3 times the normal speed, went sand surfing, had some kid run his horse team over my dragging body, then died in turn 3. Those kids are vicious. They spend more time whipping each other than trying to win. :) Saw some of a great looking (all weekend lasting) Invasion fleet WWII game of the North African landing. Looked big and impressive. Big ships, very large board with excellent terrain. Observed some 4 different types of Napoleonics going on within a 20 yard area (NB, LOG, Shako, VtoW). I saw an Empire game going on late Saturday I think. Never saw the fuzzy bunnies war. Jim Birdseye put on a large 25mm "Sharpe's Mess" event with nice terrain and plenty of guys on Fri and Sat. I played in the NASAMW invitiation DBM tournament on Saturday and had a very nice time. Played against three excellent gentlemen and came in around the bottom of the middle of the pack. Lots of guys playing in some 6 different ancients tournaments with 4 different rules sets. I never made it to the actual dealers room until Sunday morning, but from what I hear the tennis barn dealers did a little better business wise. Again, this is instinct and hearsay, so take it for that. Overall Con rating.....8 out of 10 Wanax From: Panzeri.1@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pete Panzeri, CPT, IN) Subject: Re: Cold Wars...a limited perspective Wanax writes: >Never saw the fuzzy bunnies war. I saw it! it was a good thing for all those really really small kids ... kids they needed it, thanks Roxanne ... kids ... kids ... kids ... glad she was there to keep'em occupied. some of those little ones were very cute, and some were a bit shy. where were the shy ones all weekend? why was I plagued with the obnoxious ones? kids all over the place. always so many kids running around. I brought my teenager to Historicon96 (along with another adult to help supervise her) She worked the desk, earned her keep, but mostly wanted to 'hangout' after two days, Not there for wargames? ... "ok! last time there on my ticket!" my KIDS? I tried that once, (with a teenager even) and out of courtesy to others, she was denied a return at CW 97. kids at Cold Wars? LOTS of kids at ColdWars. some were even well behaved. Boyd, I've seen you handle yours well, to be commended from my perspective... The others? [the too many others?] My message to those parents is: "I don't dedicate my military professional expertise, limited time, and hard earned resources as an unplanned babysitting service for your unsupervised, obnoxious, hyperactive children. Please have the courtesy to ask before you unleash them. Consequently, my future kids-games will be for serious kids, and my adult wargames will only include the 'exceptional-few' And when I see adults pull those inconsiderate.. [and in some cases 'child neglecting'] stunts at an HMGS Convention I'm at, you bet I'll be letting you know " there.. got that OFF my chest, maybe I'll print this in the newsletter. If it pisses you off, the either you are guilty or you missed the "appeal for common courtesy and logic" of my point. thanks, pete panzeri From: "Peter Mancini" Subject: Re: Cold Wars...a limited perspective Yeah, most of the kids were very well behaved. The majority of the youngin's spent their time at the arcade or pool. A bunch were in the fuzzy creature game. Best part of that event was the giant (10"x10"x10") six sided dice! Roxanne explained how to do something in the game to a small girl and told her to throw the dice. So, simply obeying orders, she cranked back and crashed them off Roxanne's and Michele's heads! "No, lower", said Roxanne as she handed them back. The girl cranked back again and careened them off her knees. Again, well within the specifications of the rules as given by Roxanne but not the expected effect. So this is where rules lawyers come from! Generally my new impression of kids at cons is they resemble their parents. If the parent is a whiney, annoying, ill-tempered, control freak the kids are going to be brats. If the parent is level headed, fair, patient, humorous, and easy going the kids are going to be dynamite. Capt. Pete had the same problem as Roxanne in one of his games explaining to a 40 year old that only dice that come up with a 6 counted in his game. He even illustrated with a big (2"x2"x2") rubber die. Well this guy tried all sorts of combinations such as adding dice together (4+2=6 right!). It took quite a long time for it to sink in. It was worth quite a laugh but was also annoying. Then their was the megalomaniac old guy and then the really, REALLY loud guy. Weren't they just showcased in the "Why campaigns fail" thread??? At my Malvern Hill game I saw some really funny things. I can usually tell who has ACW experience and who hasn't. One guy was in charge of a bank of artillery in Couch's area. The internal lines of supply meant he was never out of ammo and if the battery was destroyed there was a back up waiting to take its place. Well, to him his batteries appeared to be indestructible. So he did something I didn't think I'd have to warn him about - he rolled his battery off the hill and assaulted a Confederate line with it!!! When 3 batteries of 12 pounders and 1 battery of Parrots opened up and destroyed it he started to reach for the reserve battery. At that point I had to point out that, no, there would be no reserve coming off the hill to save his butt. "I was afraid of that," he said. The con had a slow start and the dealer area didn't have anything really exciting (well, excepts for Samurai figures of which I bought pounds of). I'd give the con 7 out of 10. --Pete (*Not* Panzeri) Mancini Pete Panzeri, CPT, IN wrote in article > kids at Cold Wars? > LOTS of kids at ColdWars. some were even well behaved. > Boyd, I've seen you handle yours well, to be commended from my perspective... > The others? [the too many others?] > > My message to those parents is: > > "I don't dedicate my military professional expertise, limited time, and > hard earned resources as an unplanned babysitting service for your > unsupervised, obnoxious, hyperactive children. Please have the courtesy to ask > before you unleash them. Consequently, my future kids-games will be for > serious kids, and my adult wargames will only include the 'exceptional-few' > And when I see adults pull those inconsiderate.. [and in some cases 'child > neglecting'] stunts at an HMGS Convention I'm at, you bet I'll be letting you > know " > > pete panzeri From: "Rich K." Subject: Re: Cold Wars After Action Report????? Thought I'd add my own impressions of Cold Wars, for what it's worth. By way of introduction, I've been a member of HMGS for four years, although I'd attended several conventions before joining. I'm a casual gamer, interested mainly in naval and air games, but willing to try anything that looks interesting (or has good looking terrain). I too thought that the convention got off to a slower start this year, but given the horrendous weather maybe that wasn't so bad as it gave me a chance to decompress from the ride and get organized. I use Cold Wars and, to some extent Historicon, to "window shop" games -- I observe as often as I participate. This gives me a chance to see different rules sets in action and decide whether they lend themselves to the type of gaming environment I like. I found this year's gamemasters to be especially friendly and helpful in explaining how their particular games were structured and played. I thought Hal Dyson and Stan Kubiak were standouts in this regard, with their AERODROME demos very enjoyable both to play and watch. I also really enjoyed dropping in to observe the progress of a two man game of Trafalgar using home-brewed rules; sadly, I neglected to write down the names of the two players, but they couldn't have been more friendly or helpful in explaining their game or in soliciting my reactions to it. A very pleasant way to spend the afternoon. I found the vendors' area to be rewarding as usual; the smaller Friday crowd meant that I could leisurely search for bargains without feeling that I was holding up the whole parade. I did miss the video dealer BELLE AND BLADE, who had attended in the past with several out-of-print movies that I'd been searching for; I hope they make Historicon. Friday night proved to be much busier, with the numbers of on-going games about triple the daytime count. By then I was starting to wear out, and so spent a good part of the evening observing the HAWKS crowd and guests playing their Buck Rodgers extravaganza. Not my style, but everyone seemed to be having a great time. A late night, harrowing trip home to MD. in almost zero-visibility fog was the only sour experience in a great time -- next time maybe I'll stay over. To everyone involved in putting on the con --Thanks and well done! Can't wait for July! Rich Klug From: Panzeri.1@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pete Panzeri, CPT, IN) Subject: Re: Cold Wars...a limited perspective Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 17:45:19 GMT Wanax writes: >Played circus maximus with my 2 boys and a host of other kids (I was the >only adult). I was the only guy smart enough to take the turn on the >inside at 3 times the normal speed, went sand surfing, had some kid run >his horse team over my dragging body, then died in turn 3. Those kids >are vicious. They spend more time whipping each other than trying to >win. :) I got this in ref. to my 54mm games "attracting" too many kids: >Pete >Were you serious about dropping out of 54s? Tom Milmore caught me later >in the con, and asked if i wanted to be part of the "54 Theme Room" he'd >like to set up for next year at Cold Wars. >You said that your games were "kid magnets". I'm about to start a thread >on whether or not we should adopt firm age policies regarding games at cons. >Shall I quote you, or just allude to you? TOO LATE ROB, I am on top of it.. 54mm is really fun, and it aint for kids, 54mm plastic is just as fragile as lead when stepped on by a 65lbr. [and neither is appreciated.] Nice term, "Kid-magnets" but I didn't say it (wish I had, maybe in my extreme exhaustion I did) don't recall what all I said, and I still have mixed feelings about it. I have run more "KIDS Games" than anyone [but Princess Ryan]. So I know wherewithall I speak. What was once a good idea to aide "the few kids here and there over stimulated" has become a full time babysitting effort, and it is bleeding over into the real games in a bad way. [like: the reason we do this hobby] I had four adults bow out of one game when three "over-hypers" showed up. I don't blame them. All of my events were marred by this in one way or another. I wish I had been ready for it in advance, but was too surprized (and too tired) do much. I am unsure of what I will do for now, (but I did buy more 54mmfigs as CW) I agreed to suppport the 54mm theme room. Tom and I agree we must run (and mention in program) a separate game for kids and not allow them 'all' into the adult games. But most of all I'm a little discouraged by a few of the obnoxious adults. (the kids gat an aitrtight excuse .. "they're kids!!" :) anyway I'll respond with my own perspective which includes: a. It's bad enough *some* few infantile adults spoil it for others. b. The infantility/immaturity ratio is ten times higher with kids (both accompanied and/or unsupervised) c. Adults have a right to participate without either a/b above spoiling it. d. Game-Masters have the right to descriminate as to how it is conducted. (and protect their time, effort and property) e. Those who feel otherwise are more than welcome to conduct their own anything. f. From 20 years experience of hosting games it is easy to spot which kids are: (1) "PLAYING with toys" ... and will never care about historical games. (I've watched two generations go thru this) and which kids are: (2) learning and enjoying the hobby of Historical Miniatures Wargaming. g. My solution is: (1) to run separate games for kids in an alternated location. They like it -- I like it .. [some kidsgames pure-fun, some all-educational] and (2) only selectively and tactfully* allow the "serious ones" to participate. (*by keeping the signup list under careful control to avoid both types of "infants") e. If more gamemasters could work together to reprove those who are careless with figures/materiels and those who abuse the system by bringing kids for us to babysit ... then perhaps we could curtail the trend of "wasted games." ///end/// there, there's some developmental thoughts ... my philosophy on it? nurture the good kids, don't "fully exclude" the bad ones, have a firm "word" with the infantile adults ... and make the "Grub" adults bathe. have a beer at the Bar. best, pete