From: "Kristian" Subject: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? Do anyone know where I can find an errata or a FAQ for PotR? I think the guy at the Warfrog stand at Essen said that you can only buy ONE of each type of military unit, and that this wasn't in the rules. That alone should qualify for an errata. An other thing is of course the city starting status, which was noted at the boxes sold at Essen. .. and the guy at the warfrog stand said that the minimum bid for the pope was one. ...and can a City hold more than one artist at a time? I'm looking forward to playing this game!! Kristian From: Christopher Dearlove Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? In message , Kristian writes >I think the guy at the Warfrog stand at Essen said that you can only buy ONE >of each type of military unit, and that this wasn't in the rules. I believe that this is not the case. We were playing one evening at Essen and one of the Frogs (to spare his blushes I won't say which one) mentioned this, but then checked with Frog One who indicated that this was no longer the case. Playtesting can really mess you up! (Not me, I never did.) Mind you letting people have multiple cavalry or artillery can be really dangerous, but you need to buy them to stop this. >and the guy at the >warfrog stand said that the minimum bid for the pope was one. It's not really going to make a big difference whether it's one or zero as you're unlikely to get it for zero. I haven't checked this one. >...and can a City hold more than one artist at a time? Yes (from the same source). [Of course nothing I say is official, I'm not a Frog - I no longer even have my unnumbered badge, which Frog Four, I think, needed - I just know some.] >I'm looking forward to playing this game!! Highly recommended. -- Christopher Dearlove From: "Richard Dewsbery" Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? > Do anyone know where I can find an errata or a FAQ for PotR? > > I think the guy at the Warfrog stand at Essen said that you can only buy ONE > of each type of military unit, and that this wasn't in the rules. That alone > should qualify for an errata. That was a fairly common mistake by the Warfrog demonstrators. There is NO limit on the number of each type of unit that a player may buy. Apparently this rule HAD been in an earlier edition of the rules, but the designer had decided that the restriction was no longer necessary. > An other thing is of course the city starting > status, which was noted at the boxes sold at Essen. .. and the guy at the > warfrog stand said that the minimum bid for the pope was one. Don't know about that last one. > ...and can a City hold more than one artist at a time? Yes it can. The main errata the game needs is the starting values for the five cities, and the misprint on the "Steal 2 influence" card - the German text is correct; the English text is incorrect (stating the same as the "Hold bid" card). Richard From: winsome@fyi.net (John Bohrer) Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? "Richard Dewsbery" wrote in message news:... > > Do anyone know where I can find an errata or a FAQ for PotR? > > > > I think the guy at the Warfrog stand at Essen said that you can only buy > ONE > > of each type of military unit, and that this wasn't in the rules. That > alone > > should qualify for an errata. > > That was a fairly common mistake by the Warfrog demonstrators. There is NO > limit on the number of each type of unit that a player may buy. Apparently > this rule HAD been in an earlier edition of the rules, but the designer had > decided that the restriction was no longer necessary. Actually, our boys had it right, as well they should: You can only buy one of each type of Troop tile, i.e. you could have one cavalry, one artillery, one crossbow, and so on, but you could not have two cavalry. This late development did not make it into either the English or the German rules. Also: The English PotR rules say that the SWISS MERCENARIES add one to both the attack and defense values of a Pike Troop. The German rules say that the SWISS MERCENARIES add one to only the defense value of a Pike Troop. The English is correct, the German wrong. This is not the fault of our intrepid translator, just never updated in the German rules. Also: The city starting status should have been printed on the gameboard: Venice - 7 Milan and Florence - 6 Rome and Naples - 5 Also: The two Steal Influence counters have correct German text and INCORRECT English text. They should say: Take 2 Influence Points from the player of your choice. John Bohrer Winsome Games http://www.fyi.net/~winsome From: Christopher Dearlove Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? In message <4bde1035.0311030910.292ae8fc@posting.google.com>, John Bohrer writes >Actually, our boys had it right, as well they should: >You can only buy one of each type of Troop tile, i.e. you could have >one cavalry, one artillery, one crossbow, and so on, but you could >not have two cavalry. This late development did not make it into >either the English or the German rules. There's definitely a problem here - John's pronouncements carry much weight. The problem from my perspective is that first I heard the same from James Hamilton, a very important frog, but who then went and checked with Martin Wallace who confirmed the rules as printed. Now maybe Martin was caught at a disadvantage, but when the designer (apparently, I didn't actually witness the discussion) and rulebook agree this creates a strong presumption. - When a rule is completely absent from the rulebook, and bearing in mind that most people will see the rulebook and not this discussion, it's likely that the majority of games will not see this rule in use. Adding rules (as distinct from errata which are clearly needed - such as the start position and treachery tile typo) is a very dodgy business. (I come from the position that standard rules are a very good thing to avoid much grief.) - However my two games so far make me think that the rule wouldn't be a bad idea. (There are obvious issues such as the +1 Artillery family being devalued by this.) If the frogs' playtesting strongly favours this then adding it may be advisable. I don't believe I've ever seen Martin Wallace post here, but James Hamilton does, and Geoff Brown likewise. Any input from Martin via either of you would be appreciated. (James, do you remember this coming up Wednesday night in the Jung?) -- Christopher Dearlove From: "Richard Dewsbery" Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? > >Actually, our boys had it right, as well they should: > >You can only buy one of each type of Troop tile, i.e. you could have > >one cavalry, one artillery, one crossbow, and so on, but you could > >not have two cavalry. This late development did not make it into > >either the English or the German rules. > > There's definitely a problem here No problem - I'm simply going to ignore John and play by the rulebook. When anyone mentions the designer's intent, I'll tell 'em I spoke to the designer (in a pre-slivovitz moment, too). > > - John's pronouncements carry much weight. The problem from my > perspective is that first I heard the same from James Hamilton, > a very important frog, but who then went and checked with Martin > Wallace who confirmed the rules as printed. Now maybe Martin > was caught at a disadvantage, but when the designer (apparently, > I didn't actually witness the discussion) and rulebook agree this > creates a strong presumption. Martin was sitting down, and had a beer in front of him. So he clearly was not caught at a disadvantage. And he'd not had that many beers, either. He considered it for a moment, then said that the rule was no longer in the game (although I *could* be convinced it was becuase he'd forgotten to put it in there, he was perfectly happy that it wasn't in). > (I come from the position that standard rules > are a very good thing to avoid much grief.) Carcassonne - I can NEVER decide how farmers are to be scored now. THREE different rules all getting the publisher's approval - erk. > - However my two games so far make me think that the rule wouldn't > be a bad idea. (There are obvious issues such as the +1 Artillery > family being devalued by this.) If the frogs' playtesting strongly > favours this then adding it may be advisable. I don't know about that. I'm not overly tempted by a number of the smaller troops, but one thing that makes them attractive is getting the appropriate family members to boost them. And there are a number of things that stops a player grabbing too many artillery and cavalry - the fact that the player will go broke fast is the main one, and that other players will usually move to get a couple themselves is the other. Besides, the units are pretty balanced. > I don't believe I've ever seen Martin Wallace post here, but James > Hamilton does, and Geoff Brown likewise. Any input from Martin > via either of you would be appreciated. (James, do you remember > this coming up Wednesday night in the Jung?) I remember it. It was my twin set of cavalry that caused James to start wittering about us not playing by the rules in the first place, until we showed him the rulebook and went to the Wallace for the final say. And we were ALL pretty eager to highlight ANY weaknesses in the rulebook to the Wallace :) Richard From: "James Hamilton" Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? > > John B: > > Actually, our boys had it right, as well they should: > > You can only buy one of each type of Troop tile, i.e. you could have > > one cavalry, one artillery, one crossbow, and so on, but you could > > not have two cavalry. This late development did not make it into > > either the English or the German rules. > > This development was so late, they obviously forgot to mention it to the > game's designer, who claimed to have had it in an earlier version of the > rules but snipped it from the published game. > > Richard > There is now an errata on the Warfrog website. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Princes of the Renaissance Errata STARTING POSITIONS Venice - 7, Milan and Florence - 6, Rome and Naples - 5. TROOP TILES A player may only own a maximum of one of each type of Troop tile. SWISS MERCENARIES The +1 modifier applies to both the defence and attack of a Pike unit. EVENT TILES More than one Event tile can be placed in a City box. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You see, apparently the only one troop tile thing wasn't meant to be removed. To be honest I actually quite liked the way that games played with players having mulitples of one troop type. I will have a chat with Frog one and ask him why he didn't tell us in Essen.... I am sure that we had conversations where this was mentioned and he didn't indicate that the removal of the rule was an error. Oh well. Yours James 'Hammy' Hamilton Frog four From: Kevin J. Maroney Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 18:32:27 -0000, "James Hamilton" wrote: >Princes of the Renaissance Errata >STARTING POSITIONS Venice - 7, Milan and Florence - 6, Rome and Naples - 5. >TROOP TILES A player may only own a maximum of one of each type of Troop >tile. >SWISS MERCENARIES The +1 modifier applies to both the defence and attack of >a Pike unit. >EVENT TILES More than one Event tile can be placed in a City box. What about the "Steal Influence" counter thing that Bohrer posted about on 11/3? Is the German text correct or the English text? -- Kevin J. Maroney | kjm@panix.com Games are my entire waking life. updated 2 October 2003 From: "James Hamilton" Subject: Re: Princes of the Renaissance Errata / FAQ !?? "Kevin J. Maroney" wrote in message news:0djqqvc5tk19o16s3nlobigpi66l3o8c33@4ax.com... > On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 18:32:27 -0000, "James Hamilton" > wrote: > > >Princes of the Renaissance Errata > >STARTING POSITIONS Venice - 7, Milan and Florence - 6, Rome and Naples - 5. > >TROOP TILES A player may only own a maximum of one of each type of Troop > >tile. > >SWISS MERCENARIES The +1 modifier applies to both the defence and attack of > >a Pike unit. > >EVENT TILES More than one Event tile can be placed in a City box. > > What about the "Steal Influence" counter thing that Bohrer posted > about on 11/3? Is the German text correct or the English text? > > -- > Kevin J. Maroney | kjm@panix.com > Games are my entire waking life. > updated 2 October 2003 Martin is as usual unable to get anything right :) The title of the tile and the German text are correct, the description in the rules is also correct. What appears to have happened is that the person preparing the films copied the text from the freeze bid tile for some unknown reason. I will get Martin to add this to the errata on the website. Yours James