Paul Rohrbaugh - Feb 3, 2004 5:54 am (#110 Total: 121) Basta imparare, comincia a morire! Game changes Greetings! Currently working on upgrading the rules to reflect the concerns raised on this folder. Before it goes off to the printer try out these revisions to the solitaire game: -Stacking. Stacks can only be created during the initial deployment. Reword 7.0 to allow player to create as many stacks of 2 or 3 units high as possible. This will most likely mean that the Persian units will only be set up in Row A. This reflects the changes recommended earlier by the designer on this folder. -Missile Fire. Disregard Persian Targeting rule 8.2.7. Instead, Persian units will fire upon the closest Greek unit to their front, frontal flank, flank, (left or right) rear flank, rear, in that order. In cases of ties, roll a die to determine the target. This bears out the changes recommended by Geoff Noble made earlier on this folder. -Victory Condition changes (solitaire and FtF): Elias Nordling brought up a very valid point that it is too easy for the Persian player to lose by having the Persian Army morale break. Change the victory conditions as per the following: The Persian player will win an automatic victory if the Greek Army Morale breaks (same as written). The first time the Persian Army morale breaks this is considered a morale "crisis". The Greek player does not get an automatic victory for causing this, the game continues. The units on the Persian Army Morale track are permanently removed from the game and the track "reset" with no units. After all the Persian army was vastly larger than its Greek opponent. The Persians were shocked and surprised at the level and duration of the Greek defense, but it is hard to see how they would have "Packed it in" with 5 contingents bloodied/routed the first time up "at bat." If the Persian Army morale breaks a second time, and the Persian Immortals routed as part of the second "crisis" the game is over and the Greek player wins an automatic victory. Seeing the "Imperial Gaurd" running away after so many others have perished might just be the thing to convince those easterners that coming to the Hellespont wasn't the brightest thing... If none of the above apply the game proceeds to the end of the final round of the third day and players calculate victory as per the rules. Persian units that were eliminated in the morale "crisis" are counted for VP as per rule 10.0. This will still make it tough for the Persian player, but if the Greeks have run up a butcher's bill in getting to the third day then the game will be in the balance. -This is just a "wide focus" of the changes to be made. I'll be spending some time going over the posts here, and the rules, line-by-line to make sure the revised version is just right! In my game sessions using these modified rules GttS played out spendidly. Let me know how your game sessions go! Let the dice fly high! Elias Nordling - Feb 4, 2004 1:27 am (#114 Total: 121) "Elias is God's gift to developers/designers . . . exactly which god we're not sure." RHB The fixes sound good, but I still think there is one more thing that needs to be taken care of. On the third day, all but a few of the Greek formations will leave. Assuming these don't count as routed (thet aren't), that means there will only be a few points left for the Persians to collect. Most likely, they already have lost more points than this by day 3, so they still can't win. Some more things that also need to be answered by the new rules: Does a Persian formation that routs again give another rout point? (Presumably yes, with the new rules). Whatever happens to the Greeks guarding the other pass on day 3? Or any other day, for that matter. Geoff Noble - Feb 4, 2004 5:12 am (#115 Total: 121) "Hard, sorry, stubborn persuasion that they are the first and best of the human race, and that nothing is to be learned but what they are able to teach and nothing is worth having, which they do not possess" Stacking. Stacks can only be created during the initial deployment. Reword 7.0 to allow player to create as many stacks of 2 or 3 units high as possible. Hey that was my idea too Rob's idea was to force the Greek's to place some units the 'Persian' side of the wall. This did not of itself address the problem raised by Elias but combined with other modification could be interesting. Paul Rohrbaugh - Feb 4, 2004 5:22 am (#116 Total: 121) Basta imparare, comincia a morire! Hi Elias and Geoff! Right you are, Geoff! I think that you'll find that having the Spartans and one other contingent always setting up on the Persian side of the wall on days 1 and 2, as well as the modified missile fire targeting rule, will generate more Greek casualties, and the potential for more Greek contingents routing. (Forgot to include that in earlier post, but since the designer already made that "official" I let it go by the CSW board. It will be in the revised rules!) Each time a contingent routs it leaves one of its highest CF units on the Persian Army Morale Track. Remember that a contingent can only appear once per day, so for this to happen play would have to be in its second day, at the least. I'm still waiting to hear back from the designer on some other points of clarification. To speed things along somewhat my take for the Ephialtes box on the 3rd day is that ONLY the Persian Immortals are there. All Greek contingents that don't leave set up on the game map. The rules are a bit confusing on this point and will be cleared up one way or the other. Also, I'd like to propose an optional "play balance" VP award. Award the Persian player 1/2 VP for each Greek unit that is eliminated by the end of day 3. This award would not be given off course if the Greek Army Morale breaks since the Persians would get an automatic victory if that happened. BTW, has anyone got some neat deployments or gambits to share? I usually set up the Spartans and Thebans on the Persian side of the wall, to the right. I have the Pelopennesian archers set up in the middle, and the javelins to the left, immediately behind the wall. If the Persians go up the middle or to take on the Greeks along their side of the wall, I send the javelins out against their exposed flank. The archers fall back and may follow the javelin hurlers, depending on how the battle is faring. Regardless, this is a very wild and woolly affair, with a lot of action-filled game sessions. I really like how easy this is to learn and teach to someone. Let the dice fly high! Steven Bucey - Feb 4, 2004 8:10 am (#118 Total: 121) Hexes are just areas of a regular size and shape. Well, I found that there are enough Greek hoplite units to form a solid line from one flank to the other, three units deep. That turned out to be unbreakable. Paul Rohrbaugh - Feb 4, 2004 8:25 am (#119 Total: 121) Basta imparare, comincia a morire! Hi Steve! Try it with the revised stacking rules and missile fire. Also remember that Greek hoplites can't ignore any hits when attacking. This can really add up over time. The Immortals in particular can really hang in there and inflict some losses between their missile fire capability and 4 steps. The Greeks will usually have to counterattack for 1-3 rounds per stack, taking losses most of the time. Those contingents that set up on the Persian side of the wall usually take a beating. It can sometimes be a tough call as whether to move out and engage a round earlier in melee or hanging back, shields up, to ward off another round of missile fire. Sending the javelins out to harass the Persian flank can be very interesting. If the Persians target these guys for missile fire they usually die quickly. However, that results in fewer volleys raining down on the hoplites as they glower in anticipation of wreaking revenge. If the Persian doesn't target these pesky Greeks, they can get in some nasty flank and rear attacks. That wall of shields isn't quite so tough as one would think!