Brandon Einhorn - 05:54am Jul 24, 1998 PST (#251 of 256) I have a question with the siege rolls vs garrisons. 1) How can a depleated garrison be brought up to strength? I assume the owner has to retake the area (have a LOC) and put in some divisions. 2) I dont think its possible for Gibralter to fall, given that it has 6 garrison points. 3) If it takes 1 MP per siege roll, it takes a LONG time to reduce a garrison of 3. [say 6 rolls] I know that garrisons diid hold out for a long time, but at some point they should be starved out. Mike Hayman - 06:29am Jul 24, 1998 PST (#252 of 256) Brandon, I think you are misreading the result of seiges to only destroying one factor of the garrison. I believe if the garrison is defeated in the dice roll it is dead no matter how strong. There is no partial removal of factors, all or nothing. Gibraltar fall on the siege roll of a one or two just like a one factor garrison. Brandon Einhorn - 09:01am Jul 24, 1998 PST (#253 of 256) Mike H, Thank you, I must have missed that! I assumed the garrison had to be killed factor by factor! Thus Gibralter was invincible. Now its one tough nut but can be taked. Christopher Moeller - 11:17am Jul 24, 1998 PST (#254 of 256) I am not sure if I like the fact that draining garrisons to aid a corps in a field battle should cause the automatic loss of the province if defeated with out a seige. To handle gibraltar that way would be an abonimation in my eyes but it seems relatively less appalling an abstraction for regular provinces. Still I want to see some sort of mechanism for attrition besides battle. There's a piece of errata in the pipeline... it's not "official" yet, but we're using it in our games, which simply stipulates that a garrison can't be attacked by more than one stack per player turn. That prevents the Spanish from walking into Gib with 1 division at a time and playing craps until a 1-2 wins the day. As for garrisoning the place with troops, I'm just paranoid. It's probably not the best strategy. Of course, it's a good staging area for the British occupation of West Africa (you can just wal k over and take it!). Ron Wuerth - 08:03pm Jul 24, 1998 PST (#255 of 256) Click on "About Me" for info on the Machiavelli Mailing List. During our Origins play, Kevin had mentioned that we should not be allowed to move in one division at a time per "stack", but a second attempt could come from another stack starting in a different location. I think I like the "one attempt" better though. If "many" attempts were allowed I would think there should be some sort of "attritioning" rule for both the attacker and defender during the seige, and the size of the garrison should then be factored in. (Of course there may actually be a rule for loses during siege it's been a while since I played it, but my copy of the game I'm happy to say, is on it's way!)